[Coyote]

Nooby here, and my 2 door Jimny does not arrive for another 4 months, and I am trying to learn and order so I can build it reasonably quickly (I finish my contract about the same time as the car arrives and intend to have some fun,
the lead time on some of this crap is long, particularly the E Diff locks, have found some LTG ones, does anyone have experience??
I did search but only found air locker info (but i am an old fart and not great with searching so please forgive me and post the link LOL)

So does anyone have experience with these??

I have the Harrop e-lockers (which have been brilliant) on my Hilux but they don't make them for the Jimny

[Gwagensteve]

Airlocker every time. Reliable, strong and with local support.

[Coyote]

Thanks for that

[Sausager]

Gwagensteve wrote:

Airlocker every time. Reliable, strong and with local support.

I've never run an e-locker, though the simplicity and presumable robustness seems attractive. Why does an air locker outdo an e-locker every time (presumably as a general rule)? The Harrop e-lockers seem to have a good rep, but again, I am very unfamiliar with e-lockers in general

[Coyote]

I prefer the E lockers as it is easier to run the cables in a manner that is less likely to get snagged/damaged I had ARB air lockers in my earlier Hilux 2004 (fitted by ARB) and managed to damage the air lines several times, the newer Hilux 2014 got the Harrop E lockers just because of this and found them absolutely brilliant and of course don't need the compressor running.
Yes I have a compressor in the new build...
But i am guessing that no-one in the group is running the LTG's??????

[Gwagensteve]

In what way is an E-locker simpler or more robust?

[fordem]

From a simplicity standpoint, an E-locker requires no air compressor to actuate, no air lines, no solenoid valves, just the switch and the wiring which the air-locker also needs - more to fail, perhaps someone is confusing reliable with robust.

My concern with the E-locker is the actuation - it requires rotational movement to engage & disengage and reversing direction will potentially cause the locker to disengage & re-engage - I'm curious what happens if the vehicle is on a slope, and it is allowed to roll back a few inches - can/will the locker disengage? What happens if one of the wheels on that axle is what's preventing the vehicle from moving - say - rear locker only, and you have traction on one rear wheel & one front wheel.

Air lockers will stay engaged as long as they have air pressure, and since I will have an air compressor for airing up my tires, going air rather than electric just seems safer. certainly there are fewer doubts in my mind.

[Sausager]

fordem wrote:

From a simplicity standpoint, an E-locker requires no air compressor to actuate, no air lines, no solenoid valves, just the switch and the wiring which the air-locker also needs - more to fail, perhaps someone is confusing reliable with robust.

Steve, this is exactly what I had meant. Simpler because there are less operational parts and systems, and thus presumably more reliable. It's a simple presumption which I realize may not be correct - hence why I am here asking the question. The reliability of the actual e-locker locking mechanism itself is completely unknown to me.

fordem wrote:

My concern with the E-locker is the actuation - it requires rotational movement to engage & disengage and reversing direction will potentially cause the locker to disengage & re-engage - I'm curious what happens if the vehicle is on a slope, and it is allowed to roll back a few inches - can/will the locker disengage? What happens if one of the wheels on that axle is what's preventing the vehicle from moving - say - rear locker only, and you have traction on one rear wheel & one front wheel.

Air lockers will stay engaged as long as they have air pressure, and since I will have an air compressor for airing up my tires, going air rather than electric just seems safer. certainly there are fewer doubts in my mind.

This is interesting... I had presumed that an e-locker would work on a similar principal to air, that once activated it's locked and will stay locked. I am guessing this is because for a solenoid to generate the same "clamping force" as a typical air locking unit it would either have to be much larger than the air unit or require a lot of current (or both) - both of which have problems in implementation. I'll have to find some diagrams of how e-lockers actually lock the diff so that I can understand them better.

Fordem, have you actually owned an E-locker? I'd be curious to know how much of an issue these sort of behaviors actually are

[fordem]

No, I've never owned a locker neither air nor electric, because neither ARB nor Harrop make a locker to fit a 1998 GV.

https://youtu.be/nT_H6rpd-Ck?si=Bw4X-nT7VMkaFmu_

Here's the Harrop YouTube video that explains the operation, it shows the ramp/pin mechanism, and you'll see that when the electromagnet is energized a certain amount of rotation is required for the ramp to push the pin into engagement. They DO show what happens when you change direction, you'll see the ramp rotate, you'll see the pin disengage and re-engage as the ramp continues to rotate - they don't see it as a problem, I have my doubts, they have experience, I don't.

https://youtu.be/1nYZo--7Xh4?si=t3xG4WtTNW_gSqu4

Here's another YouTube video, from a guy who says his E-locker disengaged when he rolled "a tiny bit back".

Call me sceptical, but I'm not inclined to throw a couple of thousand dollars at a locker just to see if it'll do what I want, not when I can throw a couple of thousand dollars at a different locker and know that it will work.

[Gwagensteve]

At first principles, yes an E-locker appears simpler because there isn't a compressor, but, the design of the locker isn't any simpler (and is arguably more complex as Fordem explains) and that's ignoring a substantial issue with the design, which might be viewed as "oversimplification"

I understand the locker solenoid has flying leads on it which pass through the differential housing via a pressed in rubber bung. for me, this is so much a 100% hard NO. There is a real likelihood snagging the locker wiring could pull the wiring out of the locker solenoid, and as it goes it's leaving a hole in the diff housing.

If my understanding is correct, I can't believe this design got off the drawing board. If, for some reason I HAD to buy an E-locker because of a fitment issue it would 100% be getting a proper bulkhead passthrough, not a rubber bung and flying leads. The first time I saw this I checked multiple photos and drawings because I couldn't believe that's how they did it.

ARB's air line solution leaves the diff housing sealed int he event of line failure and provides a bulkhead connection through the housing so repair doesn't require removal of the diff centre. The one supposed advantage of the E-locker - no air line to break/leak is completely undone by this design stupidity of flying leads and a rubber bung.

As someone who has fitted both the old and new style air lockers and disassembled both designs, the "new" (not really new now, but I'm old school) airlocker design is so simple and elegant it actually had me smiling as I was disassembling it. I have had numerous air lockers over the years. my dad even swapped out the Zexel-Torsen torque biasing diffs in his Hummer H1 for air lockers because of failure of the Zexels. I've had one cross shaft break in a hilux and the professional install of my Sierra rear locker (in the front of my car) was leaky from day one. Always worked, but leaked. The new style lockers I've installed myself are 100% leak free, including the rear one I disassembled and reassembled myself when I modified the side gears. I have not had compressor or solenoid issues, certainly in the Sierra. My take on this is that I use a locker activation compressor purely for that task, it's inside the car under the dash. With any accessory, poor install can undo any system.

An aside about the Harrop/Eaton E-Locker - Eaton had sunk a bunch of money into developing an e locker and couldn't get it to work, so they gave the job to Harrop to see if they could make a saleable product out of it. Yes, it works, but I definitely wouldn't use one where there was an air locker fitment available. I don't see the "advantages" if the E-locker as advantages.

Fordem - some people say the unlocking thing is a pain, others claim to not notice it.

I was reading a very lengthy thread on Irate4X4 about the E-locker - they are far from trouble free. Plenty of people were unhappy with them, and apparently not all the designs are the same - i.e the unlocking thing is worse for some models.

[Coyote]

WOW and thanks for all the information, i must admit my only experience is with the Harrop E-locker which has been excellent over the last 10 years (and still going fine).

I have not been able to establish if the LTG is even similar, but I do like the simplicity of the E locker (from a user point of view. my Hilux has seen is a fair bit of water and very rough country I have both front and rear winches which regularly get used as I take it where it should never go and beyond the ability of traction even when all 4 wheels are locked lol, and have been very happy with the reliability of the lockers.
it does seem at least from this audience that no-one has an e-locker which does make me worry...

[Gwagensteve]

The reason that no-one has an e-locker is because they didn't exist for Suzukis until very recently and the only sources are Chinese copies, which carry an inherent risk of parts available, materials and design.

Fitting an ARB air locker does not carry those inherent risks.

The supplied right angle/banjo bolt air fitting with the current air locker makes running the lines as convenient and protected as a wire, except that the hose and hose fitting is much, much stronger than wiring, both inherently and because of the ridiculous wiring decisions made by Harrop.

If you are have/were having regular issues with ARB air lines being damaged that's a result of poor install and/or poor decisions made about fitting placement when the locker was installed. Generally locker lines are run with the diff breather line so they add support to each other.

Here is my front locker fitting. The hose runs with the diff breather between the axle and chassis.



I am not concerned at all that it could be damaged. I've seen few of the old blue locker lines fail, generally due to poor installation. Hilux rears were especially vulnerable. The old olive/compression fitting design was a pain to repair. Not an issue now.

[Coyote]

Thanks for that

[Andygoodbloke]

"fitment issue it would 100% be getting a proper bulkhead passthrough, not a rubber bung and flying leads." From Gwagensteve 27/02/09

Believe it or not the wires can be hidden and sat flat along the top of the diff in a protective conduit, like the pictures of your tubes and along with brake lines, also if your not happy with a rubber bung make one you are happy with, I am sure you could drill a small hole in an old bung and seal it. This also won't be an issue if you have skid plates to prevent debris getting where it shouldn't do in the first place.
If you ask different people about their favourite anything you will have differing points of view. I would be happy with either system

[shakes]

fordem wrote:

Here's another YouTube video, from a guy who says his E-locker disengaged when he rolled "a tiny bit back".

I've seen first hand the e-locker with the roll back issue. (and then tested operation on the hoist and it did exactly as per video.

Along with a muddy alternator dropping voltage just enough that the locker would engage intermittently. That made for a pretty bad day.

[Gwagensteve]

I’ll ignore the snarky tone Andygoodbloke, but your response has missed the point. Of course the reliability of either an air or electric locker will depend on the quality of the install. That’s given. The issue is the consequence of a failure. For an air locker it’s no locker and a hose repair. For an electric locker it’s a hole in the diff housing and a diff rebuild. Because you might not be immediately aware that the failure has occurred it’s also quite possible that mud or water could enter the diff without the driver knowing. It’s a pretty bad outcome.

The problem isn’t fixed by “making my own bung with a hole in it” , it’s engineering a pass through for the diff housing that results in a repairable connection on the outside of the housing, not a flying lead into the diff. That’s reasonably complex and expensive. I’d have hoped that Harrop would have solved that problem so that I didn’t have to.

I have nothing against the idea of an electric locker, it’s just that the Eaton/Harris product and therefore I assume the Chinese copies aren’t a good product.