[Moped]

Howdy
Been doing some light reading on what lift to go with but every post I've read is about 10 years old so thought I'd put the feelers out and see whats recommended nowadays

Looking for a 2-3 lift for my 96 lwb soon to be little family car. I've just put 235/75 r15s on it
A complete kit or piece bits together doesn't worry me just wanting small lift and locked so it's fairly capable
Cheers

[fordem]

My recommendation 10 years ago would have been exactly the same as it is today, Old Man Emu, you won't get two inches of lift, but you'll get a much improved ride - for anything over that consider a body lift.

Suspension lifts over two inches create problems with camber, you'll have issues with CV axles unless you drop the front diff, and think twice before locking the front, the axle is aluminum and fairly easy to break.

[Moped]

fordem wrote:

My recommendation 10 years ago would have been exactly the same as it is today, Old Man Emu, you won't get two inches of lift, but you'll get a much improved ride - for anything over that consider a body lift.

Suspension lifts over two inches create problems with camber, you'll have issues with CV axles unless you drop the front diff, and think twice before locking the front, the axle is aluminum and fairly easy to break.

Legend cheers on your input , dropping diff isn't an issue if needed
Do you know where you'd source OME gear from
Also been looking into stronger diff options etc

Ta cheers

[fordem]

I'm not in Australia, so where I source OME from is probably not where you're going to source it from, but OME is the suspension line from ARB so your closest ARB dealer should be able to get it for you.

You won't find the Vit listed in their current application guide and you may be told it's been discontinued, I know there were supply chain issues, it took me over a year to get a pair of front struts and I'm being told, at least by suppliers in the USA, that they are now getting regular shipments.

[Gwagensteve]

3" of suspension lift requires a lot of replacement parts to maintain acceptable front end geometry and CV angles, and the common "fix" for binding of the rear A-frame ball joint at this lift height is to raise the mounting point on the diff, which raises the already very high rear roll centre. This is OK off road but doesn't assist in the already spooky handling of vitaras on road. I certainly wouldn't use a 3" lifted Vitara as a "family car" - it will be far too compromised towards off road use.

Even a proper 2" of lift requires camber correction.

235 75 15's basically fit with no suspension modifications - what is the motivation for a tall lift?

I would fit OME to get the best ride/handling compromise. OME limited front lift to keep camber in spec without the need for camber bolts.

[Moped]

Gwagensteve wrote:

3" of suspension lift requires a lot of replacement parts to maintain acceptable front end geometry and CV angles, and the common "fix" for binding of the rear A-frame ball joint at this lift height is to raise the mounting point on the diff, which raises the already very high rear roll centre. This is OK off road but doesn't assist in the already spooky handling of vitaras on road. I certainly wouldn't use a 3" lifted Vitara as a "family car" - it will be far too compromised towards off road use.

Even a proper 2" of lift requires camber correction.

235 75 15's basically fit with no suspension modifications - what is the motivation for a tall lift?

I would fit OME to get the best ride/handling compromise. OME limited front lift to keep camber in spec without the need for camber bolts.

Yeah cheers Steve I shouldn't have said 2-3" I dont want to be any higher than necessary for the best handling/ comfort / travel .
I understand front and rear angles need to be fixed if parts are compromised
I wont have it be a boat on the road

Awesome cheers is there a full kit from OME you like?
Also any recommendations on what breed for replacement bushes in arms underneath if front and rear arms stay stock ?
Cheers

[Gwagensteve]

Welcome to the murky world of suspension in general and vitaras in particular.

You're generally on track by saying you don't want to be any higher than necessary, but there's quite a few things to unpack in the "handling/comfort/travel" part of the statement.

Vitaras, unfortunately, have a fundamentally flawed suspension design. Suzuki recognised this, and fixed this issue for the grand vitara (so we know it is a real problem - Manufacturers don't change suspension designs for fun)

The issue is that the front roll centre is very low, a function of the IFS/Strut design. This is generally a very good thing for handling and grip. However, in the rear, the roll centre is very high (by comparison) - it is basically above the diff centre where the A frame connects to the diff. This makes for mismatched handling front to rear - the front feels super grippy and responsive and the rear feels, well, loose and tail happy, and the limits of rear end literal grip are hard to judge. This problem is magnified in SWB vitaras as they snap to oversteer much faster. Here's the trick though - lifting a vitara raises the front roll centre, but unlike almost every other 4WD, (except coil sprung live axle Rovers) the rear roll centre doesn't rise when the suspension is lifted. The result is a lifted vitara actually handles in a more progressive and intuitive way than a stock vitara, assuming the spring and shock rates are correctly chosen, because it's roll axis flatter, the front and rear feel more connected and the sharp front turn in is slightly softened.

As for ride comfort, suspension lift only improves ride comfort if the car is aggressively bottoming out on compressions. Unsurprisingly, the faster you want to travel the more compression you need in the suspension, but a bigger determinant of ride quality is spring rate and shock rate appropriate for the spring rate.


Overall suspension travel has nothing at all to do with lift height. An extreme case, but my Sierra has no suspension lift at all compared to a standard sierra but has well over twice the wheel travel. Overall wheel travel is dictated by the design of the suspension and the minimum compressed shock length that can fit in the car. Suspension lift doesn't have any bearing on this. The reason I say "design of the suspension" is because all the components (and geometry) are designed around the intended wheel travel. Adding a significantly longer rear shock will, for example, cause the rear springs to go loose. Installing a front strut that is too long will cause them to break their top hats and punch through the bonnet.

However there is a proviso specifically for the Vitara - generally, in an IFS design, the manufacturer installs "rebound stops" that prevent the suspension from overextending and causing damage to steering, CV's etc. The vitara does not have rebound stops - Suzuki use the strut to do that job. As a result, there are long travel struts available for the Vitara - Old Man Emu (OME) and, I think, Dobinsons offer long travel struts with significantly more travel than standard. These do not need a specific spring to work- they can be installed without other modifications.

OME will advise on spring rate based on a discussion with you about vehicle use, assuming they do still offer a kit. There are no other variables than the weight of the car as it's intended to be used. I would suggest that going outside of OME will result in you mixing and matching parts with very little guarantee of success. I had extensive experience with doing exactly that around 15 years ago and it's long and brought road. There has been no real developments for Vitara since, other than the frightening garbage from altered ego and unobtainable parts from Calmini you don't want anyway.

[Moped]

Legend Steve thanks a bunch for taking the time to write that up well said
Cheers

[fordem]

The current OME application guides no longer list the 1.6 Vitaras, there are older copies floating around the internet that you can download, or if that doesn't work for you, I can post the relevant pages. You may be told that the products for this model have been discontinued, I was told that early in 2022 by some vendors in the US, when contacted directly, ARB USA said they were on back order with no ETA, the struts & shocks are now available, and as far as I know the coils were always available.

It's not difficult to figure out what you need, as Steve says, you choose the springs based on the expected weight of the vehicle.

[Sausager]

Steve, what is wrong with the Altered Ego kits? I've never seen one in the flesh or really looked at them online but the guys in North America seem to drool over those lifts.

I ask because I am curious, not because I have a vested interest. I've not heard anything negative about those kits before.

[Moped]

fordem wrote:

The current OME application guides no longer list the 1.6 Vitaras, there are older copies floating around the internet that you can download, or if that doesn't work for you, I can post the relevant pages. You may be told that the products for this model have been discontinued, I was told that early in 2022 by some vendors in the US, when contacted directly, ARB USA said they were on back order with no ETA, the struts & shocks are now available, and as far as I know the coils were always available.

It's not difficult to figure out what you need, as Steve says, you choose the springs based on the expected weight of the vehicle.

Perfect mate yeah if you could hook me up with any links and info I would be stoked ! Much appreciated

[fordem]

I'll hold for Steve's comments, but not everything I've come across has been positive.

[Gwagensteve]

I had a bit of a look at their website and some of their more, "questionable" ideas have been withdrawn. (they used to space the knuckle down and away from the strut with a spacer block. They still use some strangle logic around lift and travel. Also, they typical obsession In the US of sizing suspension lift with tyre size. USD$~2700 to run a 31" or 32" tyre? That tyre fits with a hammered fireall seam and some work on the plastic guard liner.

Because the CV joint angles are the engineering constraint in the system, and only spacing the diff down can improve maximum droop, the have spaced and adjusted the system such that those angles aren't exceeded. I get that.

However, as the diff can only be dropped a relatively small amount (somewhat less than 2", from memory, due to the crossmember location;) this system offers 4.5" of lift, and runs a stock strut this system can only offer stock travel, so droop is reduced by 2.5" at ride height and it remains to be seen if full compression can be retained (Specifically if there is enough room for the spring to fully compress) That's an inferior result to OME in terms of suspension performance. It's certainly an inferior result to Calmini springs and arms and OME struts, which offers almost all the ground clearance of the Altered Ego kit but does actually add travel. Yes, this setup does really require the stubby axle mod, but anyone running 31-32" tyres on a vitara and 3"+ of list is going to need to do this anyway.

[fordem]

Here you go.