[vegie]

Hi,
Apologies up front, I have searched and read everything on the topic, but am so confused, I am hoping someone can help pretty please...

1998 Grand Vitara - V6 - Auto. I have manual hubs already fitted, but still have the air activation set up for engaging 4 wheel drive.

I cracked the alloy front diff casing, so need to replace my front diff. I would like to get all the parts necessary, and take to the diff place that did my rear locker, for assembly and installation.

I have sourced a steel diff housing (only the housing).

I have also sourced another standard GV front diff, just in case any of my internals are cactus also (do I need this?).

I would dearly like to air lock the front (the rear is already air locked).

Simplistically - what other parts do I need to source to make the front diff air locker ready?

Which ARB locker do I need?

Is there a simple shopping and assembly list or instructions somewhere that someone can point me to please?

I know very little about diffs and their internals, so please excuse my ignorance, I was hoping for a simple guide, but can't seem to find one.

Thanks.

[fordem]

I have not done this personally - what I have done is research the various aspects of it, before deciding not to proceed.

First - ARB says that fitting a front locker to a second gen GV can be done by fitting the diff center from a previous generation vehicle - this is because the second gens have the air activated free wheel mechanism, so step one is to swap out the front diff setup. Which locker you need is dictated by which "previous generation vehicle" you source the center from, and I would say the later models with the 26 spline side gears are preferable, so 96~98.

The first challenge you're going to face is the CV/axle shaft lengths - the air operated diff in the second gen is offset when compared to the non air operated diff in the first gen. - unfortunately, I no longer recall if it's offset to the left or the right. Bottom line - in addition to the diff center you need the intermediate shaft that goes to the left CV axle, and also the right CV axle from which ever first gen vehicle you get the center.

The second challenge is also a CV/axle shaft length one - you MAY need to create a hybrid right side CV axle - using the inner CV stub (the piece that inserts into the diff side gear, and the remainder of your original right side CV axle.

I believe, but have not been able to confirm, that the entire front axle assembly, "end-to-end", from an SV series vehicle (SV420 or SV620) is a direct swap - with only the ring & pinion "gear matching" to worry about.

The closest I've gotten to moving away from "on-line research" was when I found a scrapped 3dr first gen, I was all set to grab both front & rear axles when I figured out, based on the chassis number, that the front was a 22-spline side gear, and the rear had a 10 bolt ring gear, not really what I wanted/needed. I was lucky enough to pickup complete front & rear axles that match what my car has, and I do keep an eye open for Suzukis being scrapped, so if I find axles suitable for the conversion, I might consider it.

[Zook_Fan]

I used an RD208 installed into the GV steel housing with Vitara 5.12 gears in a manual SV625 which all worked fine mechanically. I did then convert to hilux cv's so I can't help you on the requirements of what you'll need to do on the axle side.

[shakes]

On the aus 4x4 grand vitara facebook page. There is an amazing write up search 'Frankenstein diff'
Written by B4T off here, he has destroyed and built dozens and ended up there.

Shopping list, and photos on facebook.

In short,
- GV steel housing.
- Your Ring and pinion
- Diff support bush
- Sierra carrier machined to accept GV cv's. (or vitara 2 pin centre)
- Locker to suit carrier of choice (i'm unsure on if airlocker fits, cant comment on that)
- May need a basic ring to hold crosspins in. depending on combo used.

[Juicerider]

I’ve done lockers in my zook myself, I would say you don’t need the other diff. You will use the original crown wheel and pinion and being on the front they will have very little wear. Unless it’s been full of water or run without oil.
You are doing the right thing in changing to a steal diff housing, make sure you use a steal 3rd member also.
Change all the bearings and seals once it’s apart, I used a solid crush spacer from low range off road under the pinion. It takes a bit to get the shims right, but it’s supposed to be stronger. If you don’t use a solid spacer get a crush one from Suzuki. You may also need some shim paper of various sizes to get the pinion height correct when you move it to the steal 3rd member.
you won’t need any of the parts from the extra diff you bought because once you use your original crown wheel and pinion, change the bearings everything else will come with the airlocker
As for which locker to use. ARB would be the best people to ask. The variables on the vitara is the number of splines and the number of bolts holding the diff to the crown wheel.. ARB still sold me the wrong one but exchange it ok when I took it back.

[fordem]

Just one question - did you put the locker in a Vitara or a Grand Vitara? The main reason I ask is the CV/axle shaft lengths that I mentioned earlier.

[shakes]

fordem wrote:

Just one question - did you put the locker in a Vitara or a Grand Vitara? The main reason I ask is the CV/axle shaft lengths that I mentioned earlier.

1998 Grand vitara.
CV's are fine.
From memory, 8mm needed to be taken off the long axle. (disclaimer: there has been many beers between then and now)
Yolo'd one, cut it roughly where the circlip groove was. and 'it was fine'
Another we got a new circlip groove cut.

[fordem]

Shakes, that question was actually meant for juicerider - your earlier post wasn't "air locker specific", and my interest is in air lockers.

[Juicerider]

fordem wrote:

Shakes, that question was actually meant for juicerider - your earlier post wasn't "air locker specific", and my interest is in air lockers.

Yeah it went into a 92 vitara, but the steal diff housing I used was a 04 gv. I used the original vitara axles in the gv housing. They fitted fine.

[fordem]

Which confirms what I was saying - there is going to be an axle length issue that will need to be dealt with - IF - you use the GV axles, which you will have to if you're fitting the locker to a GV.

Based on my research the Vitara & Grand Vitara housings are "dimensionally identical" (there is actually on part number for an aluminum housing that was used from 1989 out to 2006), so this permits the GV steel housings to be used on earlier models without a significant degree of "fiddling", going the other way however, a center (or air locker) for the earlier models in the Grand Vitaras is not as easy, because, as I said earlier, the later centers are offset, and the axle lengths are different.

[30ONA]

Just put in an lsd specific for the vehicle. Way easier.

[Gwagensteve]

30ONA wrote:

Just put in an lsd specific for the vehicle. Way easier.

Except then you'd just have an LSD, which negatively affects handling in H4 and doesn't have enough traction to drive the car with a front wheel in the air. Kind of a loose/loose. LSD's are for tuning handling on road for road cars.

[MrRocky]

Having the locker and being able to use the locker when you really need it are 2 seperate things.
With a locker those cv's snap like twigs even on the sand.
Id find a cv solution before you even worry about the effort of fitting a locker

[Joe]

MrRocky wrote:

Having the locker and being able to use the locker when you really need it are 2 seperate things.
With a locker those cv's snap like twigs even on the sand.
Id find a cv solution before you even worry about the effort of fitting a locker

I've used mine a few times now front locked (not as much as I'd like ) and I haven't had and dramas with CVs yet, I reckon Dan's GV was just a lemon he had constant issues with that and the person selling it 12 months ago was still having problems with it.

[fordem]

30ONA wrote:

Just put in an lsd specific for the vehicle. Way easier.

SO - do you have a source for an LSD specific to the front of an SQ625???

[MrRocky]

I dunno im not convinced
Seeing them snap on sand and stuff a sierra would drive in 2wd on multiple cars has my confidence in those cv's well and truly shot.

[atari4x4]

I raped the shit out of my Vitara’s in sand with a front airlocker & never had an issue with cv’s, the only time I broke one was when it was bound up in a hole in a high traction situation.

[30ONA]

fordem wrote:

30ONA wrote:

Just put in an lsd specific for the vehicle. Way easier.

SO - do you have a source for an LSD specific to the front of an SQ625???

https://www.zookoffroad.com.au/product- ... -lsd-front

[shakes]

MrRocky wrote:

I dunno im not convinced
Seeing them snap on sand and stuff a sierra would drive in 2wd on multiple cars has my confidence in those cv's well and truly shot.

I ran 245/75/16 and an auto and didnt blow a CV in 20 odd vic high country trips over 2 years.
B4T runs 31/10/16 silverstone extremes and beadlocks in a manual... He only destroyed a handful in the 10 or so years of abuse driving vic's harder tracks with a no sympathy approach.
Rear axles locked are probably a weaker link.

Both running the auto locker setup I described above (and one is now in Joe's car)

[shakes]

fordem wrote:

Which confirms what I was saying - there is going to be an axle length issue that will need to be dealt with - IF - you use the GV axles, which you will have to if you're fitting the locker to a GV.

Based on my research the Vitara & Grand Vitara housings are "dimensionally identical" (there is actually on part number for an aluminum housing that was used from 1989 out to 2006), so this permits the GV steel housings to be used on earlier models without a significant degree of "fiddling", going the other way however, a center (or air locker) for the earlier models in the Grand Vitaras is not as easy, because, as I said earlier, the later centers are offset, and the axle lengths are different.

Fordem - You can do a huge amount of mix and match across suzuki diffs. (ie B4T's sierra 4 pin carrier, with vitara side gears in a steel housing) shims, top caps, bearings, etc are all very interchangable.

I believe GV and vitara housings are identical. The difference is the pumpkin and the mounting points.

I would be AMAZED if you couldn't make an airlocker work, but if you can't find someone who has done it. Then you'll need to spend some time on the bench experimenting.
Or jump on aus gv facebook page and hunt down Jay.

[Joe]

Air lockers in a SQ GV can definitely be done

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4723

[fordem]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you can't put an air locker in an SQ, I'm saying it can't be done without a mix & match - the axle lengths is what you WILL have to deal with.

[MrRocky]

Im sure there are those who can make a front locker live through a certain degree of mechanical sympathy and i cant comment on terrain in your part of the country.
But i can say in 20yrs of wheeling hard tracks mainly with suzukis in west oz i dont think a front locked vit has ever made it through a days hard wheeling cv's intact.
Never seen a vit make it up bobs or tj hill.
Keep in mind also what some vit owners would consider a "hard" track may also be a point of difference.

[atari4x4]

MrRocky wrote:

Im sure there are those who can make a front locker live through a certain degree of mechanical sympathy and i cant comment on terrain in your part of the country.
But i can say in 20yrs of wheeling hard tracks mainly with suzukis in west oz i dont think a front locked vit has ever made it through a days hard wheeling cv's intact.
Never seen a vit make it up bobs or tj hill.
Keep in mind also what some vit owners would consider a "hard" track may also be a point of difference.

But breaking cv’s in sand, clearly shows that there was a set up problem or Chinese cheese cv’s

[shakes]

MrRocky wrote:

Im sure there are those who can make a front locker live through a certain degree of mechanical sympathy and i cant comment on terrain in your part of the country.
But i can say in 20yrs of wheeling hard tracks mainly with suzukis in west oz i dont think a front locked vit has ever made it through a days hard wheeling cv's intact.
Never seen a vit make it up bobs or tj hill.
Keep in mind also what some vit owners would consider a "hard" track may also be a point of difference.

This is probably a key point. I just youtubed bobs hill, your calling something closer to crawler/comp spec hard. From the video, your average daily driver come weekend warrior wouldn't even attempt it.
I'm calling hard for the majority. Not the final few. (3 minutes of youtube is a pretty poor judge too)

[MrRocky]

Aquaman lwb sierra wrapped up bobs in a couple of minutes with a pretty simple setup and twin locked on skinny 32"s as a daily driver with over 100k kms in that form.
What good is locking the vit front when it will let you down when you need it most.
Its ok for your average vit owner that might use it for that one time every 12 months to get over some ruts but i maintain that for anything "hard" no cv solution exists to make the vits reliable for harder tracks.
I really am suprised no chromo cv option exists, if it did i certainly wouldnt be driving noisy leaky lwb sierras over vits.