[Seth2013]

Hi all

I have managed to acquire a 1998 manual jimny with a blown motor in it. the cab and chassis is rust free. the paint is trashed and the interior is a bit sad but it feels like a shame to just wreck it/part it out so I'm just trying to get a plan together to fire it back up and put it back on the road. it is high 200k on the odometer apparently, not sure how high, haven't bothered hooking a battery to find out how bad it is.

possible plans in order of logic, keeping in mind I'm located in the tropical north of Queensland (come for a holiday, its a great place and would keep the tourism firing)

G16 Baleno conversion - sounds like a good idea, but not sure what state the gearbox is in but could swap to AW4. sourcing a G16 with coil ignition up here is difficult and the existing head is trashed.
G13 and just fix it - super slow but suzuki APV could be a good source for a motor?

covert to M series motor/gearbox - would need a loom and gearbox mount setup, but I am way more familiar with these as my running jimny is an M series

convert to latest series jimny wait for a wreck and swap as much as possible sans airbag and collision gear - chassis is similar but guessing fab required. I like this idea the most.

J20 - lots of work to convert and it will break things with the power
H20 - haha yeah, same as above but worse

anyway if anyone has 2 cents or more to add to any ideas fire away, I'm in no rush, the Jimny was rotting in a paddock, now its rotting slower in my back yard under cover.

[alien]

With the second hand price having gone through the roof, you could probably just do the bare minimum to get it running and sell it for a solid price to buy more bits for your '03 Jimny? lol

[Seth2013]

alien wrote:

With the second hand price having gone through the roof, you could probably just do the bare minimum to get it running and sell it for a solid price to buy more bits for your '03 Jimny? lol

haha yeah, the temptation to take advantage of covid tax is there. especially up here, there are multiple jimny's going for 15K.

what is the thoughts on the G16 in the newer suzuki APV's, are they similar enough or completely different to the original G16?

[fordem]

I could be wrong, but, I believe the G16 in the APV is "tilted" over at an angle, which would mean that you're going to have to source intake, exhaust, oil pan, oil pump pickup, and that sort of stuff separately - if you were buying it to replace an existing G16, maybe - to replace a G13, you might want to do a bit more research.

[Gwagensteve]

Correct Fordem. The APV motor is almost unrecognisable.

[vet 180]

My vote is go to an M18

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[Seth2013]

Okay great info.

And I'm guessing the g series doesn't quite Lego together like the m series, as in I couldn't swap those bits over from the g13 that is in there.

Vet180, I'm keeping an eye out for wrecked newer jimny's, one has shown up in mackay which would have everything I need, just going to cost a pretty penny to ship it up I'd say

[Gwagensteve]

Converting to an M series motor isn't, in my opinion, worth the effort, there are significant wiring/management differences. By the time you assemble everything you need you would have been better to start with a cheap M engined Jimny.

Swapping to current Jimny running gear makes the least sense of all. These cars have very extensive electronic systems (CAN bus, ESP, Traction control etc) and trying to remove/disable individual systems is going to create a nightmare of errors/limp modes etc. Also, there's no power steering pump provision on the current jimny motor. I think you'd end up needing stand alone aftermarket management.

The obvious, simplest and most likely-to-be-completed outcome is ti swap in a running G13BB.
The next easiest solution, and one won't massively overcapitalise on the car) is to put a G16 in it.

I'm not sure what engine/driveline swaps you've completed to date but an AW-4 swap will require some fairly involved work, along with a Vitara TCC and associated wiring, auto jimny pedal box (or pedal mods) You'll need to keep a careful eye on gearing too - I can't quickly determine 5th gear in the G engined Jimny but there's some information it's 1:1, which means you'll be revving pretty low with stock gears and an AW-4 on the highway. It's unlikely the engine/gearbox will like this, so you'll likely need an auto Jimny transfer case or maybe a gear drive case conversion, especially if larger tyres are part of the plan.

A G13 Jimny isn't "super slow" if the car is properly geared for the tyre size and at least some attention is paid to GVM.

I guess mostly, what's possible will depend on your skills, perseverance and budget.

I can see no good reason to fit a J20 or H20. Not because of power, but because they're hard enough to fit it makes far more sense to use an engine better suited to the job, like a 2RZ/3RZ or something.

[Seth2013]

Thanks Steve, all good points.

Clears a lot up on the G series aw4 front. Limited driveline swapping experience, most I've done are engine variants of the same models but I'm never one to back down from a challenge. Even still after your comments I'm steering toward the g13/16 and hoping the gearbox isn't trashed.

I'll update next with what happens. Don't hold your breath though.

[sideways]

If your G13 isn't salvageable then I think it's just down to what falls in your lap. A M13 conversion would be nice but I think it's pretty much unviable unless you happen to pick up a whole M13 jimny super cheap. Baleno is the same, sounds like you've got a similar location issue to me. I can't remember the last time I saw a Baleno let alone one for sale. You couldn't really bank on picking up a Baleno for a conversion.

Gwagensteve wrote:

I can't quickly determine 5th gear in the G engined Jimny but there's some information it's 1:1.

No it's the same gearbox as a Sierra, 0.865 in 5th.

Gwagensteve wrote:

I can see no good reason to fit a J20 or H20. Not because of power, but because they're hard enough to fit it makes far more sense to use an engine better suited to the job, like a 2RZ/3RZ or something.

Lulwut? Fit an untried engine conversion that weighs 70kg more and makes no more power because it's more suitable? An RZ weighs the same as an ecotec! Might as well just fit the commodore v6 in that case, more gearbox options, more powerful, more available, reliable and much cheaper.

[vet 180]

sideways wrote:

If your G13 isn't salvageable then I think it's just down to what falls in your lap. A M13 conversion would be nice but I think it's pretty much unviable unless you happen to pick up a whole M13 jimny super cheap. Baleno is the same, sounds like you've got a similar location issue to me. I can't remember the last time I saw a Baleno let alone one for sale. You couldn't really bank on picking up a Baleno for a conversion.

Gwagensteve wrote:

I can't quickly determine 5th gear in the G engined Jimny but there's some information it's 1:1.

No it's the same gearbox as a Sierra, 0.865 in 5th.

Gwagensteve wrote:

I can see no good reason to fit a J20 or H20. Not because of power, but because they're hard enough to fit it makes far more sense to use an engine better suited to the job, like a 2RZ/3RZ or something.

Lulwut? Fit an untried engine conversion that weighs 70kg more and makes no more power because it's more suitable? An RZ weighs the same as an ecotec! Might as well just fit the commodore v6 in that case, more gearbox options, more powerful, more available, reliable and much cheaper.

This. At the end of the day its going to be whatever you can find. And although I said M18 gets my vote at the end of the day you are going to need a stat write off m13 jim or similar to really make it work as there are a lot of M13 parts you will need. Almost easier to to M13 first unless you can get your hands on all the m13 parts needed.

The G series is getting pretty long in the tooth also. And the problem you have in regards to cheap replacement motor is G13bb is a sort after sierra conversion making them scarce and expensive.

I know a J24 has been done in a jimny as I have literally seen one, but it would be a very difficult conversion as there is literally no info out there on the web.

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[Gwagensteve]

sideways wrote:

Lulwut? Fit an untried engine conversion that weighs 70kg more and makes no more power because it's more suitable? An RZ weighs the same as an ecotec! Might as well just fit the commodore v6 in that case, more gearbox options, more powerful, more available, reliable and much cheaper.

Yep. I'm deadly serious. A J20 only just sort of fits and a H20 basically doesn't. Both aren't especially reliable and both require so much work theres no reason to choose one over a motor from any other manufacturer. It's not like a Jimny front end will live with a H20 or J20 under it, so it's going to need a stronger front end anyway - the wight is pretty immaterial - we're in the realm of major project conversions with either motor. 3RZ's have bonkers torque - in my mind they're a proper off road motor - they'll lug, they have that lovely linear, long-stroke feel - the complete opposite of a H20.

[vet 180]

Gwagensteve wrote:

sideways wrote:

Lulwut? Fit an untried engine conversion that weighs 70kg more and makes no more power because it's more suitable? An RZ weighs the same as an ecotec! Might as well just fit the commodore v6 in that case, more gearbox options, more powerful, more available, reliable and much cheaper.

Yep. I'm deadly serious. A J20 only just sort of fits and a H20 basically doesn't. Both aren't especially reliable and both require so much work theres no reason to choose one over a motor from any other manufacturer. It's not like a Jimny front end will live with a H20 or J20 under it, so it's going to need a stronger front end anyway - the wight is pretty immaterial - we're in the realm of major project conversions with either motor. 3RZ's have bonkers torque - in my mind they're a proper off road motor - they'll lug, they have that lovely linear, long-stroke feel - the complete opposite of a H20.

If your going to go an unproven NA toyota engine conversion I would choose the 2tr over the 3rz. Newer, lighter, more power, more torque, better spread of both, easier to get parts, more reliable etc

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[sideways]

Gwagensteve wrote:

3RZ's have bonkers torque

3rzs make less torque than a H27 and the 3rz peaks a whole 700rpm higher. Aside from cost and engineerability I don't see why you'd use a H20 over a H27. H27s are still cheaper than 3RZs. H engine into Jimny is also a proven conversion, not that I'm saying I would recommend it.

Having driven a 3RZ I think they're an uninspiring, asthmatic engine. I don't see any reason to run one, you're going to add around 100kg, they make very poor power for their weight (the same weight as an LS1!), they're expensive, the gearboxes are expensive and limited in choice and you almost certainly aren't going to be able to engineer it. The only positive I can see is hipster engine conversion points, it would be "kewl" and get you likes on facebook.

[vet 180]

sideways wrote:

Gwagensteve wrote:

3RZ's have bonkers torque

3rzs make less torque than a H27 and the 3rz peaks a whole 700rpm higher. Aside from cost and engineerability I don't see why you'd use a H20 over a H27. H27s are still cheaper than 3RZs. H engine into Jimny is also a proven conversion, not that I'm saying I would recommend it.

Having driven a 3RZ I think they're an uninspiring, asthmatic engine. I don't see any reason to run one, you're going to add around 100kg, they make very poor power for their weight (the same weight as an LS1!), they're expensive, the gearboxes are expensive and limited in choice and you almost certainly aren't going to be able to engineer it. The only positive I can see is hipster engine conversion points, it would be "kewl" and get you likes on facebook.

Same can be said for the J24 vs J20. You would be mad to do a J20 conversion when there are more J24s around and pretty much the same price. Well if you were going to do it would be with a stat write off GV. The J24 makes more power than the 3rz, 16nm les but earlier in the power band and due to more revs available the ability to get more torque to the wheels through gearing. And its a heep lighter.

I agree the 3rz is very uninspiring. It has a very small power band. The only thing that makes them cool is the bottem end is very strong so you can bolt big turbos on the side and make bulk power.

If I had unlimited resourses and time and had to start from scratch for a jim conversion I would start with an Auto J24. Havent driven one, only seen, but have driven j24 ngv's and M18 jimnys. I imagine it would feel like an M18 on steriods

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[twitchy]

I've just bought my first Jimny, also with a dead engine. Baleno g16b is probably your best
& easiest swap. Around $240 for the adapter kit & use the g13bb unbroken body, that simple.