[missmyljdaze]

ZUZUKI wrote:

Back to the original post.......and I have zero knowledge if these options have been previously considered and rejected, and zero knowledge of the details, but:
Other vehicles that use a Suzuki stud pattern include:
Lada Niva
Asia Rocsta? maybe

Michael

LADA NIVA = front and rear diffs are FIAT clones, dunno how strong - but I couldn't break axles or diffs in either of the Nivas that I had [and they were worked awful hard]
Same goes for the 2 Nivas that were used/abused by the Scout Association over here - diffs and axles never failed, even with repeated drowning in salt and fresh water. [never trust venturers and rovers with "company cars"]
I have also never been able to break a diff or axle in a FIAT 124 sedan, 124 coupe, 125 or 125s sedan - even with cig lockers, overwidth rubber and a heavy right foot.

Another dodgy brothers swap for the list - Mahindra CJ340DP [WILLYS CJ3B clone] runs DANA44's [iirc 5.38:1] front and rear.

[ZUZUKI]

Sportage is a bit new & same same as a Vitara to be much of a contender to yield bits, as is / was the Lada (not the newer bit) but Feroza came out with IFS & a 2.8litre diesel - bound to be more on the HD side than a Vitara, maybe it is a really chunky 24spline?.

Yes, BlueSuzy, Land-Rover up to P38 Rangie & DiscoII (but all 110 / Defender) have front bolt on swivel balls & rear spindles on to flanges on the diff - quite a neat idea.
To remove a front diff centre, is: 4 tailshaft nuts/bolts, 10 (I think, from memory) nuts centre to housing & 6 per side swivel ball to axle tube. Pull the whole wheel / hub / brake / swivel ball outwards by 100mm each side & life the centre out. Of course, it would be nice to have a bit more strength in the front diff so you didn't have to get in there in the 1st place.....
Early cars are 10spline outer, into the CV, later cars (like 1992-3 on) were 24spline.
PCD is 5 on 6.5" (165.1mm) which is shared by practically nothing (Volvo C303/304 is a nice exception - hello portals) & the centre bore is quite large, which rules out re-drilling to suit Suzuki pattern.

Rgs, Michael

[Gwagensteve]

First generation sportage was a possible candidate- generally a little stronger than an equivalent vitara, but the spindle integrated into the upright killed that idea.

No 2.8 diesel feroza- they were 1.6 only. IFS rocky- maybe- I’ll have a look into that.

[nick_bj40]

Just a thought. Pjs offroad make some mint drive flanges.

My thought could a 28 or 30 spline locker side gears and/or drive flanges made for sierra or vitara (probably vit as the c&p is larger)

Just an idea helps use parts we know about probably wont cost the earth either..

[Gwagensteve]

30 spline doesn’t fit through a Vitara locker housing, only a spool. 30spline doesn’t fit through a Sierra spindle. Hence the search for a 5 on 5.5 hub assembly that will take a 30 spline axle.
Closest is f150 Dana 44, but the pressure angle is different to Toyota.

[BlueSuzy]

I've only been finding cheap Holden Cruze and Jeep Cherokee 30spline bolt on hub assembly's that might suit. But stud patterns wrong.

[nick_bj40]

Would a 28 spline be enough? You said earlier its only just not enough strength so wouldn't 28 spline be enough of a step up to do the job without over engineering what only just breaks

Redrilling the holes is inexpensive enough if would work

[Gwagensteve]

28 spline *might* be enough but it looks like as much work and cost as 30 spline.

[ZUZUKI]

Ah, yes, it was Rocky I was thinking of with 2.8L diesel - knew it was Daihatsu something or other.
Rgs, Michael

[Bebop]

Bumping this back up since I just bought a samurai, again.

Turns out that even with a big Ultra4 buggy in the garage, sometimes you want a light nimble and cheap rig to have fun with.



I'm very interested in putting a hybrid axle underneath it and am reading material left and right, but it seems (to me) that the best/most knowledgeable dudes are here.

@GWagensteve : Did you ever get that 30sp toy/vitara hybrid axle built ? I'm very familiar with the F250/350/450 unit bearings that branik and TG sell. They are the Ford 99-04 version. Instead of going with a drive flange that has is splined to 30sp Toyota (which is a TG special part), you could have your custom shaft made to have 30sp yota on one side and 30sp Dana on the other since this is what comes from the factory. Would could either use readily available drive flanges or even the stock locking hubs. I know you don't like that option, but wanted to add it, since you only mentioned it for Dana44 outers, but you should know it can be used for the unit bearings too).

On my end I'm not convinced by the need to go full floater. I like the simplicity of a semi-float, plan to keep the rig as light as possible and with the bigger vitara bearings I'm not too concerned. Tires will be BFG KR3 UTV tires stickies (32x9r15).

I know of the Ford 28sp possibility as it's readily available from ZOR but they only offer it with a spool. I want an airlocker, which means custom work has to be done. Since I have to make some custom stuff, why not go bigger? I have access to a full machine shop and a EDM machine. The idea is to EDM the spider gears of the ARB locker to Ford 31sp and bore the ARB carrier hole bigger to ft the shafts through.

The reason I'm posting is because I do not have a Vitara airlocker handy and wanted to see if someone knew how thick the carrier bearing journals are and if there is enough meat to bore them safely.

Something else I have been pondering, I know Vitaras had a couple of different carriers and R&Ps available throught the years, some with 8 bolts and some with 10 I think. Which version is the strongest, most plentiful around ?

Thank you

[Gwagensteve]

No, I haven't pursued the 30 spline option. I'm hoping that by lightening my car, transferring more traction to the front end, raising the gearing and more critically, properly straightening the rear housing, I can make the 26 spline axles live.
I'm also keen to drop tyre and wheel weight, but that's an expensive step.

Yes, I'm aware of the possibility of dana/toyota splines on the same axle using Dana spindles, but I wasn't aware of Dana 30spline drive flanges to suit the unit bearings. Interesting.

I dislike semifloating axles on any 4WD, if for no other reason than serviceability. The fact they're stronger is a bonus. (consider we do have to deal with mud, so bearing service is pretty regular)

Ironically a fitted a 10 bolt Vitara air locker not that long ago but I didn't measure it up. I'd be very interested in the idea of running 30 spline dana with the unit bearings as a floater. I think that would be plenty strong enough. Time will tell if I need to step up ito that or of I re-use my current driveline in another project it may well be something I investigate.

I'm sure if you ran a 31 spline semifloat axle with 32X9's you'd never have a problem in the world.

It's 10 bolt ring gear/12 bolt ring gear

Considering the later cars all used 12 bolt ring gears I'd say they're the stronger option. The third is also different - the 12 bolt thirds have provision for a load bolt which was unused in the Vitara (?) but I think was used in the grand vitara. As for what's most plentiful, I can't comment on the US market. I don't think you'll find the 5.38's or 4.625 in 12 bolt, but most other ratios should be OK.


Make sure you throw a build thread up here!

[Gwagensteve]

Oh, do you have an more details on Myron's 28 spline spool? Is it to suit a Samurai or Tracker carrier? (or is it a broached out mini spool?)

It might *just* be possible to bore a Samurai front spindle to suit 28 spline. This isn't my preferred option, but if its feasible and I can buy a spool, I have scope to just replace the axles, drive flanges and mini spool and step up to 28 spline. That's a reasonable compromise.

I don't think I'd go this route with a semi float axle, but for a floater I think it could work.

[Mike harris]

Anyone know what shaft size the 28 spline is?