[BertZook]

BertZook wrote:

This was post in Monkey's build tread, I though it was betteer to make it a new tread for all of those jimny lovers who re thinking to get some kind of reduction for bigger tyres

from zukenutter - he said they were rough calculations

Mark III with Mark III gearbox + a standard 1.3 Sierra Transfer + Stock diffs = 40% reduction
Mark III with Mark III gearbox + a standard Mark II Jimny Transfer + Stock diffs = 30% reduction
Mark III with Mark II gearbox + a standard 1.3 Sierra Transfer + Stock diffs = 16% reduction
Mark III with Mark II gearbox + a standard Mark II Jimny Transfer + Stock diffs = 6% reduction
Mark II Jimny with a standard 1.3 Sierra Transfer + Stock diffs = 10% reduction
Mark II Jimny with a standard 1.3 Sierra Transfer + Mark III diffs = 16% reduction
Mark II Jimny with Mark III gearbox + a standard Mark II Jimny Transfer + Stock diffs = 30% reduction

ok, coming from this initial chart...

ad the fact that the 4.16 gears do a 12% reduction to a sierra transfer, so adding that to the 10% on the chart above, we have a final of 11.2%

and from this

swb_ddis wrote:

Comparative

205/70/15 - 215/75/15 = +5%

205/70/15 - 235/75/15 = +9.5%

205/70/15 - 30/9.5/15 = +11.5%

it would mean that if I get 30's, Id be deadth spot back on factory settings??? or Im doing % wrong?


but again according to this link

top jimny wrote:

What about this?

http://www.gaulois4x4.com/gallery/index ... IMNY-TRANS

a sierra t-case plus 4.16 gears would give me a 19.8% reduction in HI

[zukenutter]

BertZook wrote:

BertZook wrote:

This was post in Monkey's build tread, I though it was betteer to make it a new tread for all of those jimny lovers who re thinking to get some kind of reduction for bigger tyres

from zukenutter - he said they were rough calculations

Mark III with Mark III gearbox + a standard 1.3 Sierra Transfer + Stock diffs = 40% reduction
Mark III with Mark III gearbox + a standard Mark II Jimny Transfer + Stock diffs = 30% reduction
Mark III with Mark II gearbox + a standard 1.3 Sierra Transfer + Stock diffs = 16% reduction
Mark III with Mark II gearbox + a standard Mark II Jimny Transfer + Stock diffs = 6% reduction
Mark II Jimny with a standard 1.3 Sierra Transfer + Stock diffs = 10% reduction MORE LIKE 8%
Mark II Jimny with a standard 1.3 Sierra Transfer + Mark III diffs = 16% reduction
Mark II Jimny with Mark III gearbox + a standard Mark II Jimny Transfer + Stock diffs = 30% reduction

ok, coming from this initial chart...

ad the fact that the 4.16 gears do a 12% reduction to a sierra transfer, so adding that to the 10% on the chart above, we have a final of about 20%

and from this

swb_ddis wrote:

Comparative

205/70/15 - 215/75/15 = +5%

205/70/15 - 235/75/15 = +9.5%

205/70/15 - 30/9.5/15 = +11.5%

it would mean that if I get 30's (about 14% bigger than stock tyres, 235 is closest to 10%), Id be dead spot back on factory settings??? or Im doing % wrong ?


but again according to this link

top jimny wrote:

What about this?

http://www.gaulois4x4.com/gallery/index ... IMNY-TRANS

a sierra t-case plus 4.16 gears would give me a 19.8% reduction in HI CORRECT

[BertZook]

epic fail for me then


thnks mr nutter



so I got a few options.

1-get 235's (9.8%) and sierra t-case (6.7% from link, 8%-ish according to you), and be bit underpower

2-get 30's (14%) and sierra t-case with 4.16 gears (19.8%) and be bit overpower

3-get 235's (9.8%) protrack 7.3% and be a bit more-less underpower than with a sierra tcase

4-get 30's (14%) and protrack 15.3% and be a bit less overpower than with a 4.16 sierra tcase... almost stop-on

5- get 235's (9.8%) and get diff gears from the link you gave (about 10%) and be almost spot-on

[BertZook]

btw think is hand to put the pic and not just the link

[zukenutter]

Haha, decisions decisions

[shep]

If you have tyres 10% bigger then standard it isn't as simple as lowering the gearing by 10% to fix it. You also need to take into account the weight and construction of the new tyres.
My old sierra on 33" silverstones was aprox 20kph slower then when on 33" bighorns, tyre weight and tread were the only change.

[swb_ddis]

I see that I haven´t lied a lot to you

[Bugsta]

I have some info and pricing for Protrack gear sets.

With the 17% (at least) they modify one of your original gears and supply a replacement for the other. They have some 17% gears in stock. 7% and 24% later in the year and on 'mate to order' basis
This would require we send our original for them to mod. Could be a few weeks turn around. I might consider sending a spare I have for someone on an exchange basis at a fair price.

So - costs
Cost of shipping your gear to Protrack about $50
Cost of new gear & modifying yours $670
Cost of shipping back $200. (for 1 set)

They do discount for multiples and of course shipping can be shared, so once I have an idea of who wants them, I'll do some more calculations.

I think the 17% will bring 32's back very close to stock gearing. So that's the way I will be going. Once the Low gears are ready, I'll do them next.

[swb_ddis]

I think it´s better you will wait that Protrack guys have the final hi/low gears and only low gears ready and you will have only one shipping and open your transfer only one time.
Final cost for you will turn more cheap.
At the moment if you need regear your Jimny now maybe TrailJimy gearset can be a better option.

[Bugsta]

TJ is still only High and Low

[swb_ddis]

Hi!!
I don´t like the idea to modify one stock gear.
Maybe is better to wait that Protrack guys have the 2 new gears for hi/low ready to sell.

[Bugsta]

They didn't offer that as an option.

1. Send your gear for them to modify 270e
2. Let them purchase new gear and modify that 180e + 270e
3. Let them purchase second hand gear and modify that ?? + 270e

[pete_79]

There's so many threads about Jimny gearing these days, but I think this on is the most comprehensive one and probably the best spot for this post.

I have been putting together some info to do a summary on gear ratios for push button VVT Jimnys, but I'm finding some conflicting info.
Hopefully some of the more knowledgeable people around here can shed some light on this one for me.

My understanding that these details are correct (according to all the info I've found so far).

5 speed Manual Transmission Gear Ratio:
1st= 4.425
2nd= 2.304
3rd= 1.674
4th= 1.19
5th= 1
Reverse= 5.151

Final gear ratio (Diff Ratio)= 4.3


But for the transfer ratios I've found 2 sets of numbers.
The common wisdom around here says.

Transfer gear ratio:
High= 1
Low= 2.002


Now after a lot of searching for info in other places I see the following numbers come up a lot for what we are calling 'Mark III' models (or later then 'Gen 5' to the Japanese).

Transfer gear ratio:
High= 1.320
Low= 2.643



The Prostaff site (who make the Zeal gear sets that I've installed) says.
Standard low range= 2.643
New reduced low range= 4.690 (or approx. 77% reduction)
Super reduced low range= 5.407 (or approx. 104% reduction)


Now based on that very pretty chart above, it looks like my reduction of 4.690 in my push button case is actually lower then if I had fitted a Sierra case with 4,16 gears????
Or am I missing something?

[sideways]

Pete, you started with a manual VVT transfer and didn't change the high range right? 1.32 high on 215s with VVT manual gearbox/diffs would give almost 4700rpm at 110!

Your low range would be 3.55 (2x1.7745, assuming you have the 77.45% reduction gears). Thanks to that extra low 1st gear you're rocking a 67.548:1 crawl ratio. If you ran a 4.16 transfer you would have to fit a non VVT(mk2) gearbox to claw back a small part of the whopping 58% high range reduction and make it useable on the highway. With a 4.16 transfer, vvt manual diffs (4.3) and a mk2 gearbox you'd have a 65.327:1 crawl ratio, so really you're actually (very slightly) lower geared than if you were running 4.16s in a practical sense.

Obviously, your chosen Prostaff low only reduction is a much better solution than the 4.16/mk2 combo. Not only have you not had to change out half your mechanicals for older less refined parts, you don't have to put up with 4850rpm at 110! Though the VVT gearbox is a known weak point so that is a good advantage to the other path.

Prostaff would quote 1.32 ratio transfer figures as that's what almost every Jimny in Japan would have (660 models and auto wide). Yours being a manual VVT has the 1/2.002 ratio transfer. Both transfers run the same low range gearset but the chain drive ratio is different.

[pete_79]

sideways wrote:

Prostaff would quote 1.32 ratio transfer figures as that's what almost every Jimny in Japan would have (660 models and auto wide). Yours being a manual VVT has the 1/2.002 ratio transfer. Both transfers run the same low range gearset but the chain drive ratio is different.

Excellent, thanks mate.
That's where the confusion started, I couldn't find any info for working in the push button transfers from Australian sites, so have been translating a lot of Japanese and European web sites.

Your reply makes things much clearer for me now.

Cheers.

[sj80tourer]

so would a stock wt transfer be enough for 30's on my 99 jimny ?? ...

[Jezza86]

a auto one would be 1:1 with what you already have
a manual vvt transfer would put you at 1.27:1 , ie the wrong direction

manual 4.3 diffs would be good compared to 4.09, 5% reduction

[sj80tourer]

i contacted trail jimny today they do a gear set for the chaincase


Hello again,
for your jimny model we build both 15% and 24% reduction kits.
Whit a 15% reduction and 30" tyres you would get the same ratio of 
a standard jimny with original 205/70/15 tyres, while with a 24% 
you would be about 10% slower both in high and low range.
The price of our kits is 650 EUR each + shipment.
Feel free to contact us anytime.


$909.60

[pete_79]

That's pretty much exactly what I paid (including freight) for my low only gears from Japan.

For your model Jimny (lever operated transfer case) there is also the Zeal (made by Prostaff in Japan) 15% H/L gear set, simular to the ones you've been quoted there.
Or there is the APIO low only planetary gears for your model. But these are still worth about $2,000.




I put together this list of options for push button transfer cases in another gearing thread, might as well drop it here too;

pete_79 wrote:

Just to confirm; you CANNOT use the APIO 58 star (58% low only) gears in the push button transfer.

The only options for push button transfers that I've found so far are;

Zeal (Japan) -
* 77%L only
* 15%H and L
* 15%H and 104%L

Protrack (Greece) -
*70%L only
*7%H and 77%L
*17%H and 87%L
*27%H and 97%L

Trialjimny (???)
* 20%H and L
* 35%H and L


As far as I can see it is possible to combine the low only sets with the high/low sets.

[swb_ddis]

Hi sj80tourer! For a Jimny with manual transfer case you could use some gear kits of Protrack from Greece.
They have kits for H/L with -7%, -15% and -24% and for 4L planetary gears with -60%
Links:
http://www.protrack.gr/proionta/suzuki/ ... gears.html
http://www.protrack.gr/proionta/suzuki/ ... gears.html

[Rollin]

Seems to be that everyone in here has a manual!!

I've been looking for options for my VVT/push button auto, which I'm lead to believe has the 1.27 (or 1.32 or something :S) high range ratio and 4.090 diff gears.

I've found it hard to find out if the percentages given for the reduction are applicable to the auto or manual case - obviously if I purchase 25% reduction gears for
a manual transfer I'll end up with taller gearing than factory!

I want about a 25% high reduction (and that or better in low), as at the moment the car sits at about 2800rpm at a true 100km/h in 4th, but it will only do it if you
hold the throttle at about 95% open (just before the point of kickdown) and you're behind a truck or travelling downhill with a tail wind! 25% should get about
3500rpm@100 which should be acceptable I think.

I've emailed all the usual suspects and I'll put the info here in case someone is interested.

Email to/from Trial Jimny:

Hi,
I'm interested in the 25% reduction gears to suit M13A VVT Jimny Automatic (MY2012).
Could you please give me a price and availability for a set shipped to XXXX, Queensland, Australia?
Thanks.

Hello,
the price of our reduction kit for jimny VVT A/T is 850 EUR and the
shipment to your address with EMS is 100 EUR.
You don't need anything else in order to install these gears and
they don't need any shim, just plug and play.
Feel free to contact us anytime.

Cordiali saluti/Best regards
trialjimny.com


Email to/from traction4x4.it:

Hi, do you make these 25% gears to suit 2012 M13a VVT Jimny with auto transmission?
Do you post to Australia?
Thanks.

hello
sorry it will not fitt VVT jimny
best regards
distinti saluti
Antonio
TRACTION4X4 SRL


Email to/from protrack.gr:

Hi,
I am looking for reduction gears for my automatic 2012 Jimny with the M13a VVT motor and push button transfer case.
I want around a 25% reduction, and I see you have the option of 27H/97L or 24% H+L.
Are either of these to suit the transfer case in the automatic Jimny?
How much for the gears including postage to Post code XXXX, Queensland, Australia?
Thank you.

Hi,

The only options that fit what you are asking, are –27H/97L or -27-H/L.
But these numbers, referred to models with petrol and manual gearbox.
It has been observed that in some countries, there are different ratios to automatic and diesel in relation to the European models.
Thus, the reduction may be different in your case.
Moreover, there may be a difference in the width of the chain.
In those circumstances, i need you to confirm the high ratio that your car has or even better the teeth number of the two chain gears and the width of the chain.

Prices ​​are as follows ..

-27H/-97L = 1000 euro + shipping 152 euro
0H/-70L = 850 euro + shipping 132 euro
-27H/L = 550 euro + shipping 102 euro.

Best regards,
Michael Theologitis


Email to/from 4xfourart:

Hi,
I'm interested in the 5.12 ring and pinion gears for the Jimny.
Would they fit a 2012 automatic jimny? (M13a VVT with push button transfer case)
How much for front and rear gear sets including postage to XXXX, Queensland, Australia?
Thank You.

Hello,
Sorry for my late reply but I have been out on a development project.
Yes our gears fit your vehicle no problem.
The gear set for both front and rear costs 700 euros.
The gears weigh 11 kgs in one box.
We can ship these to you economically by PTS worldwide express for 150 euros. (4 days delivery).
That makes a total of 850 euros for your order.
Warranty is 10 years against manufacturing defects.
Payment is by bank transfer to our account.
We do not accept credit cards or Paypal.
Our bank account details are below

Best Regards
Turgut Baris
International Sales Director
4xfourart


I'm actually leaning towards the diff gears rather than transfer gears even though it will cost more. Reading this forum has basically convinced me that the
entire Jimny drivetrain is made of glass I figure 25% reduction in the transfer case is 25% more stress on the chain and the rest of the transfer case and driveshafts,
whereas 25% lower diff gears should only stress the axles the extra amount, and give the transfer case a much better life.

I'm concerned that on freeway trips the rear diff will overheat (I've noticed the current one gets pretty damn hot after even a short drive) so I'll probably
look into either modifying the diff for more capacity, better cooling or a combination of the two.

I'm also interested to know if anyone has actually tried different brands or types of diff oil and compared temperatures generated? I know circuit racers are into
that, not sure about 4x4 guys...

[sj80tourer]

the zeal 17% and 104% low lokk the goods to me

[Jezza86]

on another note i have just noticed auto jimnys in japan have 5.375 front and rear diffs...
http://www.suzuki.co.jp/car/jimny_landv ... jimny.html

thats a 20% reduction, at the diffs, if they fit. which i have no idea about...

[Rollin]

Would the JB23W diff centres fit into an SN413? Is the 'W' in that model name for 'wide track'?

It's more of a reduction than I really want, but it would be good to be able to just bolt them in without paying a diff shop to set them up.

[Jezza86]

1475 mm wide vs a auzzie 1600 wide, so not wide track but if the centres bolt into the same axle housing and theres the same number of splines on the drive shafts it might be doable

[Gwagensteve]

Last time I saw a photo of a JB23 it had an alloy front third member. Those specs are for a 660cc kei car. They are mechanically quite different, although the auto box is basically the same.

Checking the Air locker application chart implies that the front of JA11 and JA12 (660 Sierra) and all jimny is RD207, but the rear of 660cc cars is different as only 1.3 litre Jimny's are listed for the rear as RD208.

Not really an answer, but sort of?

Steve.

[Jezza86]

Hmmn wonder if the r&p would bolt up

[sagi]

Hi there...

A question about a combination i saw in the table...

is it possiable to fit Jimny VVT manual, with a pre-VVT M13A manual gearbox?

someone ever did that?

for example to take a 2003 manual transmission and put it on a manual VVT Jimny?

[sj80tourer]

what reduction will a stock widetrack transfer give to a 99 jimny 5 speed g13bb

[pete_79]

sagi wrote:

Hi there...

A question about a combination i saw in the table...

is it possiable to fit Jimny VVT manual, with a pre-VVT M13A manual gearbox?

someone ever did that?

for example to take a 2003 manual transmission and put it on a manual VVT Jimny?

Yes it has been done.

There is tonnes and tonnes of great information in the rigs section.
You should start by reading this build and you will be sure to learn something from the master. http://www.auszookers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=307585#p307585