[SierraDan]

I'm not sure you'd get a 30spline axle through the spindle. Then your axle necks down to 26spline.

I don't see a need for chromo drive flanges.

[jdk81]

Ive been paying a lot of attention to the axle breaking/twisting issue, and have been thinking a lot about engineering a cheap weak point. I waited 8 months for them to be made and arrive, I dont want to break them.

The gv drive flanges are stronger than the axles, any necking/change of diam will be the breaking point. Extra strength probably isnt the best solution, I think choosing a weak point will be the most cost effective solution.

Its possible to remove some material from the drive flanges to reduce surfacs area of mounting face/friction so the flange bolts snap instead of axles, or just run free wheel hubs.

Ive also looked a driveline clutch packs like machinery uses on pto shafts etc, but its going to be hard to package it and know what setting to make it fail/slip.
but using free wheeling hubs which break the bolts is simply the cheapest and easiest option

[jonno_racing]

Does anyone know the part number for the drive flanges?

[jdk81]

Flange 43471-80001
End cap 43241-80001

[jdk81]

Some info for those considering this

I have misplaced all the measurement stuff for the axles (I received this info from Steve)
Dean at performance Cryo had the measurement stuff on hand, he probably wont have them now.
Be warned, I found Dean's communication shit, he took ages to do things, and respond and often made excuses etc.

My short side was 9mm shorter than Steve's, as I made my jig around a WT front diff. I shortened the axle after it arrived.

Having been asked by a couple of people what it cost me
Total was around $2150 incl material for the jig, and all DIY.

I only had the custom brake hoses made by ENZED, I did all the lines, fittings and flaring myself.

Axles (Total approx AU$750)
1st installment US$300 (After exchange $325)
2nd installment incl post US$377 (after exchange $425)

Adapter plate from Steve $70 + post (about $80)

From LROR + post (about $450 incl post)
Auto-locker US$250
Brake bias valve US$79

Full vit/x-90 rear diff (from a you-pull-it wrecker) $130

Spindle bearings $70 (ebay)
Brade pads and rotor $150 (ebay)

Brake lines and custom hoses $200ish (ENZED)

Drive flanges $90 (new is nearly $200 for the pair at my local Suzuki rip off mechant)

Steel to make the jig $150ish

Consumables and paint $80+

Spindles and calipers I had previously, but obviously there is a cost associated with them.
There is metal for the perches too

If you deviate from what Steve has done, you may be on your own, and have to work out your own stuff.


While $2150 seems a little pricey for DIY, when compared to chromo and locking a WT front (from $1100) it seems reasonable.

Compared to modding a WT rear on the cheap
Stock rear diffs with drum brakes and shitarse wheel bearings suck so much (approx landed prices)
auto locker $300 (diff and axles become high maintenance with a short lifespan)
disc conversion in a WT $500-700 (brake bias valve, brake adapter kit, brake lines and fittings, calipers, rotors and pads etc)
chromo rears $350 (don't have a great reputation)

Still have WT rear diff strength, and worst of all the shithouse wheel bearings ($100 a pop and dont last long and total PITA to swap),

For reference
WT front diff auto locked, with chromos and vit ring and pinion ratio (about $1100+ and all DIY)

LROR (about $400 landed)
Ring and pinion master rebuild/install kit US$109
Auto locker US$250

Trail tough (about $500 landed, bought on special)
double tough chromos US$480

Ring and pinion $75 (you-pull-it wrecker)

kingpin and wheel bearings etc $125 (ebay)

Side gears 26 spline (sourced for free, but obvious a cost associated with them)

[Gwagensteve]

I think that's a fair figure jdk. I think Greg's ended up costing similar.

Steve.

[Zook_Fan]

I didn't find Dean too hard to deal with. I wasn't in a hurry but he said he needed 3 weeks to get material and 4 weeks to build them. That was fine with me and I was updated after exactly 3 weeks to say the material was in and 4 weeks after that was told they were done ready to send. Not disagreeing with you jdk, just my experience with him.

Are people using Sierra or Vitara spindles/brakes/hubs?

[jdk81]

Zook_Fan wrote:

I didn't find Dean too hard to deal with. I wasn't in a hurry but he said he needed 3 weeks to get material and 4 weeks to build them. That was fine with me and I was updated after exactly 3 weeks to say the material was in and 4 weeks after that was told they were done ready to send. Not disagreeing with you jdk, just my experience with him.

Are people using Sierra or Vitara spindles/brakes/hubs?

Sierra spindles
Swappable spindles front to rear is handy in the bush (can carry a spare spindle, or just one set of wheel bearings)
There's a lot of preference to Sierra front wheel bearing arrangement

Re Dean
He took some time to reply, I assumed he was busy, so wasnt following up too much. ( I would have been proper pissed if my build was waiting on those axles though)
I ordered and provided all details incl CC info on 26/1/2013
Performance Cryo deducted 1st payment on 5/6/2013
2nd payment 4/9/2013
They arrived late Sept, early Oct IIRC

They are a good price, and a good product, just took a while.
I would buy from them him again

[tanshi]

having seen steve break one of these axles first hand there is no way I would bother spending $750 on axles from there.
When I can do Hytuf ones for probably ~$4-500 for the pair I just don't see the point.

[Gwagensteve]

If we loose another one you know who you'll be getting a call from Tanshi

[Zook_Fan]

I may be a little biased here because I'd like to think I haven't wasted money but I still think that the stronger axles are always the better solution. Although I haven't watched Steve break an axle and therefore don't know the circumstances I believe that a 17% weaker axle would have given up earlier. The floater progression moved from Hytuff when shaft breakages were starting to climb and 300M brought that back in check. The 300m axles only have to prevent one failure to be cheaper than even $400 a throw for Hytuff

[Gwagensteve]

Yes, but to date, we've had one failure with EN-26 and one failure with 300M, however, we've had multiple sets of EN-26 on 35" tired cars for years with only the one failure. Splines have stayed straight on all the axles in service to date.

The 300m axles seem to twist splines and I broke one basically first trip out.

I'm aware my car was more heavily laden than normal when it failed but it also wasn't working anywhere near as hard as I've worked the EN-26 axles.

Time will tell.

[tanshi]

having seen what our hytuff shafts put up with I just know that I trust them. Wouldn't spruke them if I didn't.

paying 30% more for something that's apparently 17% percent stronger to me is odd.

[Gwagensteve]

At the time I went 300M, I was looking at the same price for EN-26 made locally, so it made sense to step up.

Steve.

[godsfather]

looking at this thread, Job well done.

i own a 5 door 1994 Vitara (JLX) and thinking of this conversion. though i would be happy to get as much easy job as possible and not cut the original axle.
hence, are there any ready made kits that could help me with this ? plus, ordering the correct measured inner axles for this job ?

this is the length Steve wrote -
Short side 605mm
Long side 805mm

for the trimmed axle housing. and without trimming it, it will be 35mm on each side (70mm in total) ?

please advise,

Amir

[jdk81]

Using sierra spindles
The long side remains unchanged.
The short side will be 164mm longer.

However, if you are building a full floater for your vit, you would be better off using vit spindles etc as these are slightly shorter, and common front to rear etc.
This would slightly change the shaft measurements, but means minimal increase in track width

[godsfather]

Lost you there...

Not sure if sierra and vitara are the same model in my country.

Is there a ready made kit to get?

[Gwagensteve]

Amir,

Sierra= Samurai.

My axle lengths are for an axle cut to suit the rear diff offset of a Samurai.

Yes, you can avoid cutting the housing, but will have to deal with some track width increase, which isn't always a good thing.

[godsfather]

so making a full floater vitara on a vitara would work else ?

[Gwagensteve]

Sorry? Not really sure what you're asking.

[godsfather]

ill try and clarify then -

as i've said, i have a vitara and i want to convert it's rear axle to a full float one.

the thread is talking about cutting the axle because of the width for a samuari/sierra, but for an original vitara i dont need to cut the axle as the width if fine.

what do i do next ? buy brackets from who ?

disc brakes conversion, i'm basing the discs on a samurai one or vitara ones ?

[Gwagensteve]

My kit uses samurai hubs, callipers, rotors etc and wasn't intended for use in a Vitara.

I believe JML's kit uses Vitara hubs and rotors and Passat (?) callipers in order to retain the factory handbrake and minimise track width increase (I think his kit only increases track 10mm per side due to the use of Vitara hubs.)

As has been pointed out, you'd be better with a kit that uses vitara hubs so all four hubs match. As I was building for a Sierra (Samurai), I made my kit to accept Sierra (Samurai) hubs, so I can carry one spare hub assembly with me should a have wheel bearing issues.

Steve.

[godsfather]

hi,

thanks.

who/what is JML ? i googled it but got mixed in results.

handbrake is not a problem as i'm changing the t-case to a samurai/sierra one that has a handbrake mechanism on it (old ones, mid 80's)

Amir

[tanshi]

How much of a hurry are you in?

[godsfather]

i'm not

[Gwagensteve]

Godsfather, here

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=44954

[jonno_racing]

I pulled down a vit floater today to change some mounts and lock the center.
It was made a fair while ago buy someone on the mainland.
The axels have roughly a 3mm bow in the long side and also step up to 28mm though the center for some reason!
Not overly impressed to say the least.
Should we be looking at replacing them?
I can get 4340 cromo axels cut locally but nowhere in Tas can heat treat them unfortunately. Can u get away without heat testing at all??

[Gwagensteve]

No. 100%- heat treat is required.

The axle should come up to 28mm at the seal, but otherwise should be slightly smaller than the diameter of the root of the spline. I'd like to see some photos.

[SierraDan]

Floater 2.0

[Gwagensteve]

That milk crate looks to be pretty bad for ground clearance. I'd ditch that.