[GraphicX]

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/4WD-4500lb-W ... 3a952a8a60



would like to get a winch for the jimny but not keen on the idea of hanging something that's 30kg on the front. looking on here people are saying 6000lbs is the minimum for a winch, while others are fitting inexpensive 4000lb ebay jobs.

the winch in the link seems to be quite decent quality, but not sure about it still. the pulling power is about 2 tons, near twice that of the jimny although it'll need the heft if it's genuinely stuck. it seems like a good compromise between weight v power & cost v quality.

any thoughts on it or has any one got any experience with the lightweight 'cheap' winches they can share ? atm my only recovery equipment is a shovel & mobile phone lol, will be getting a snatch strap shortly.

[tanshi]

look at the runva 9500 rock crawl winch. light, powerful and good quality.

Give dank at KPD4x4 a call, he will look after ya

[GraphicX]

looks like a good winch at a really good price but it's still 30kgs. my front springs have already sagged an inch just with the bull bar, that's why i'm hesitant of getting a 'proper' winch & the weight that comes with it. it's really a bad compromise i guess.

[jonno_racing]

Im running a RUNVA 4500x in my ute, and it kicks ass. the only issue i had was one i created (2 much rope on the drum)
its light, powerful for what it is and also dosnt draw a huge amount (this can be very important at times) it comes with a cool mounting plate and good quality wiring etc, to give you a idea of the size, my free spool leaver is modified but other than that its stock. it dragged the zook sideways out off ruts yesterday, 90' to the car...


i have a cheep ebay 4000lb on my jimny and it has also recovered it many times without a issue!
the down fall was it only had like 9mtrs of rope on it! its now got 16 and so far is mint!


Mind us trapping off (we had just been told the winch wouldn't work and was only good for boats) this is a ebay $160 special, it did 3 recoverys on sat, this was buy far the easiest

[AckerDackerly]

From experience and research (http://www.innovation-engineering.co.uk/winch_theory.htm or a general search for winch at Ack's FAQ - link in signature), 4000 pounds is not very much when it comes to trying to winch out an SJ/Jimny/3-door Vit. It might be okay for an LJ or an ATV...

8000 pound winches, while bigger (and more expensive), can handle just about any situation you can get into and not break down. You don't buy a winch because it will look good on your truck. You buy a winch to get out of a tough spot when you are a long way from home.

I hope this helps

[Jim_Aus]

good to know the 4000lb winch is up to the challange, ive got a 'cheap' one, its going onto the jimny one i make a tray for it this weekend....

[Drova]

I also have a Runva 4500 on front of the drova, works very well
I've recovered My self a few times, manly when I get hung Up
on something or if I get crossed up on steep hill, nice safe pull
forward To avoid laying it down is really handy!

[Drova]

[ozzycouch]

Do these small winches include a brake for power out winching?

[Drova]

Yes I think most do, the Runva I have does.

[shep]

I had a T max 6500lb winch on my lwb sierra and it worked very well. Had no problems winching out of door deep bogs on a single line pull.

[GraphicX]

thanks for all the replies guys, been really helpful.

@ shep; any idea where i might pick up a tmax 6500 ? had a google but jimny bits is the only real retailer i'm familiar with & they're in the UK.

[GraphicX]

here's a decently priced unit on amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/EyourlifeTM-5000l ... 5000+winch

doesn't seem to be the same quality as the tmax 4500, but it's a very similar design to many others just with different branding etc.

[shep]

$500 will buy a runva 9500 winch which is what I now have on my jimny. Don't bother messing around with
ATV type winches. Even a shitty eBay spec 9500 or bigger winch would be better then anything smaller then a 6000lb winch

[GraphicX]

how are your front springs coping with the extra weight up front from the big winch & bull bar ? what springs are you using ?

[shep]

Coping fine. I actually had to fit spacers to the rear as the rear springs sagged a little from
towing stupidly heavy trailers. I have a ORA 4" kit.

[mazdaspater]

I have the same brand, but smaller on my Sierra. It pulls hard for what it is. Pulled me out of the deep mud 3 times single line, twice double line.
It did about 30 full length pulls in one night when my fuel pump was sucking air and it wouldn't run on steep angles. Did 7 full line pulls in a row under batteries without an engine start.

I cant fault it for a piece of garbage.

[davevet]

Drova wrote:

that looks exactly like I want to do, and pictures of the mounting setup?

[Drova]

Yeah mate pretty simple and removable
Just two bits of 4mm angle, on the front
And back of the tube that go between the
Chassis rails. Bolted thought with 5x m8 bolts.

Then bolted the plate the winch came with
To to angle 4x m8 bolts, then bolted the winch
Down to thought the plate and the angle
Again with 4x m8 bolts.

[Jim_Aus]

looks like it does the job, ill be fitting mine this weekend, if all goes to plan....

[Marko_SJ]

Drova wrote:

Yeah mate pretty simple and removable
Just two bits of 4mm angle, on the front
And back of the tube that go between the
Chassis rails. Bolted thought with 5x m8 bolts.

Then bolted the plate the winch came with
To to angle 4x m8 bolts, then bolted the winch
Down to thought the plate and the angle
Again with 4x m8 bolts.

I actually really like the idea of that setup.

How much use has it seen? Would you do it any differently next time? Looks simple, and I'd be able to fit it behind my ally bar....

Edit: just seen your original post in this thread. Hmmm. Wonder if the same can be done with a larger winch.

[top jimny]

My 2 cents

I've been looking myself for a winch and also don't like the idea of a 30 kg winch in the front of my Jimny. If you have a heavy bull bar as well, it's like having a person there full time. Just don't match vehicle's size and weight...

Mine is a daily drive and light off road, but i do like to be on my own sometimes and was already stuck for nothing in the most ridiculous bump in the middle of nowhere. I'd certainly pay $500 to someone pull me out that day and me and my girlfriend had to walk for hours to find a farm and luckily a tractor to pull us out just before getting dark. So i'm definitely spending $500 on a small winch.

I have researched everywhere about using an ATV winch. Look for at least 4500 lbs (i'm into a 5000 lbs) and good breaks. The modern permanent magnet motors can really take a beat nowadays. They are much slower than a series wound, of course, and may require a double line sometimes or maybe extra rope. They also don't have a steady torque as a series wound, but i believe they will do the job.

I haven't buyed or installed a winch to this day yet. But my personal opinion is that series wound motor winches are just to heavy for Zooks. They only pay out is if are into very serious wheeling. then just handle the weight and high battery drain (which is the biggest problem BTW). It is very troublesome and expensive to fit a large or dual battery and better alternator for some of us. And you probably get f*** first by having your small Zook battery drained out by a series wound than burning a high end permanent magnet motor (if that's their problem).

cheers

[Gwagensteve]

I'll play.

Conventional wisdom is that a 6k winch is about the lightest winch required for a Suzuki. Jimny's seem to come up to around 1600KG laden, using the industry accepted ratio of 1.5X your vehicle's weight, that's 5280 lbs. The industry also recommends always going to the next size up, not down, so that's how we end up with 6K as the useful minimum.

Remember that the rating for a winch is on the first layer, above that first layer, the winch runs faster but pulls less.

What's the consequence of a winch that's too small? Surely it's just really slow right?

Well, winches that are working right at their load limit are really slow, which is one problem, but they're also right at the limit of their brake capacity. You don't want to winch up out of something and then have the winch slowly lower you back into it once you've let your finger off the button.

I'll also maintain that you're not really saving any power. I'll use Warn as a guide because their data is easy to get hold of. Lets say you need to pull your car 20 feet to get it clear of the hole you are stuck in, and it's really stuck, so it requires 4000lb of pull to get you out. A 4K warn ATV winch will pull at 4 feet per minute whilst using 308 Amps. that's a 5 minute pull at 308 amps: 308X5 = 1540 total amps consumed

Now lets say you fit one of those too big, too heavy, and too power consumptive series wound 6K winches. at 4K that winch is pulling at 12.9 ft/m and consuming 360A. You're winching for just over minute and a half, consuming a total of 550A. That's one third of the power consumed, its less one third of the time spent on the rope.

Which winch requires the big battery and alternator?

Of course, I suppose you could use a snatch block for 1/2 the load - lets work that out.

Well, with a snatch block your ATV winch will pull at 11 feet a minute, and consume 175 amps. Your 20ft pull will take 3.63 minutes 3.63X175= 635 total amps consumed. So that's more power consumed than the 6K, twice the pull time, and you couldn't even do a 20ft pull with an ATV winch on a double line pull without re-rigging because there's only 55' of cable on the drum.

That 175 amp consumption is still three times what your stock alternator can deliver, so I think you'd still want an upgrade.

ATV winches are for ATV's. That's why they are called ATV winches.

I don't have a problem with an experienced club driver messing about with a 4.5K winch, lets say rear mounted or something - a light pull back out of something might be heaps more convenient than rigging a complicated snatch recovery or something (from my experience) but for single vehicle travel ATV winches aren't adequate, require more complicated recovery setups because of the short cable and requirement for a double pull, and still require an upgraded electrical system.

You don't want to take chances with undersized recovery gear if you are into single vehicle travel.

That T Max 4500lb winch would be a better bet than an actual ATV winch, but I wouldn't use one as my primary recovery equipment (IE for single vehicle travel)

Steve.

[davevet]

Marko_SJ wrote:

Edit: just seen your original post in this thread. Hmmm. Wonder if the same can be done with a larger winch.

+1 - I'm sort of researching budget options for a winch setup on my sierra... like a lot of people...... and drovers setup definitely appeals to that.... really interested as to the capacity/size of winch you could fit like that...

[JrZook]

davevet wrote:

Marko_SJ wrote:

Edit: just seen your original post in this thread. Hmmm. Wonder if the same can be done with a larger winch.

+1 - I'm sort of researching budget options for a winch setup on my sierra... like a lot of people...... and drovers setup definitely appeals to that.... really interested as to the capacity/size of winch you could fit like that...

8mm angled plate with a bit of extra support+full size 9500lb without hacking the grill. More info here viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4826&p=535478&hilit=lil+foot#p535478

[top jimny]

Thanks Steve for your post.

[Marko_SJ]

JrZook wrote:

davevet wrote:

Marko_SJ wrote:

Edit: just seen your original post in this thread. Hmmm. Wonder if the same can be done with a larger winch.

+1 - I'm sort of researching budget options for a winch setup on my sierra... like a lot of people...... and drovers setup definitely appeals to that.... really interested as to the capacity/size of winch you could fit like that...

8mm angled plate with a bit of extra support+full size 9500lb without hacking the grill. More info here viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4826&p=535478&hilit=lil+foot#p535478

Yeah, I've seen the way you mounted yours. Its super neat and I was impressed... I'll probably go down that route to be honest, mounted to the angle like drova.

My only issue is the cross member on the chassis that you knock the tooob through is already bent.

And motivation.

[Marko_SJ]

Gwagensteve wrote:

I'll play.

Conventional wisdom is that a 6k winch is about the lightest winch required for a Suzuki. Jimny's seem to come up to around 1600KG laden, using the industry accepted ratio of 1.5X your vehicle's weight, that's 5280 lbs. The industry also recommends always going to the next size up, not down, so that's how we end up with 6K as the useful minimum.

Remember that the rating for a winch is on the first layer, above that first layer, the winch runs faster but pulls less.

What's the consequence of a winch that's too small? Surely it's just really slow right?

Well, winches that are working right at their load limit are really slow, which is one problem, but they're also right at the limit of their brake capacity. You don't want to winch up out of something and then have the winch slowly lower you back into it once you've let your finger off the button.

I'll also maintain that you're not really saving any power. I'll use Warn as a guide because their data is easy to get hold of. Lets say you need to pull your car 20 feet to get it clear of the hole you are stuck in, and it's really stuck, so it requires 4000lb of pull to get you out. A 4K warn ATV winch will pull at 4 feet per minute whilst using 308 Amps. that's a 5 minute pull at 308 amps: 308X5 = 1540 total amps consumed

Now lets say you fit one of those too big, too heavy, and too power consumptive series wound 6K winches. at 4K that winch is pulling at 12.9 ft/m and consuming 360A. You're winching for just over minute and a half, consuming a total of 550A. That's one third of the power consumed, its less one third of the time spent on the rope.

Which winch requires the big battery and alternator?

Of course, I suppose you could use a snatch block for 1/2 the load - lets work that out.

Well, with a snatch block your ATV winch will pull at 11 feet a minute, and consume 175 amps. Your 20ft pull will take 3.63 minutes 3.63X175= 635 total amps consumed. So that's more power consumed than the 6K, twice the pull time, and you couldn't even do a 20ft pull with an ATV winch on a double line pull without re-rigging because there's only 55' of cable on the drum.

That 175 amp consumption is still three times what your stock alternator can deliver, so I think you'd still want an upgrade.

ATV winches are for ATV's. That's why they are called ATV winches.

I don't have a problem with an experienced club driver messing about with a 4.5K winch, lets say rear mounted or something - a light pull back out of something might be heaps more convenient than rigging a complicated snatch recovery or something (from my experience) but for single vehicle travel ATV winches aren't adequate, require more complicated recovery setups because of the short cable and requirement for a double pull, and still require an upgraded electrical system.

You don't want to take chances with undersized recovery gear if you are into single vehicle travel.

That T Max 4500lb winch would be a better bet than an actual ATV winch, but I wouldn't use one as my primary recovery equipment (IE for single vehicle travel)

Steve.

I'll make it clear that I was intending to mount a larger winch (around the size you have suggested in many previous winch posts).

I want to use it to self recover on any climbs after an "incident" at one of our local spots, and to do single vehicle recovery if I go bush and get stuck, so it must be reliable.

[Gwagensteve]

My comments were more directed towards topjimny as much as anyone, but in general, I tend to think that cheap winches are ruining 4wding.

Steve.

[davevet]

Gwagensteve wrote:

I tend to think that cheap winches are ruining 4wding

Without detracting from the focus of this thread, thats an interesting statement - why?