[bakerboy]

lol the light still works fine, I'm not burning a lens just yet haha

[Matthew]

You're no fun. Try cleaning a corner with a strong solvent, if it is glass coated with PMMA it should remove the yellowing.

[fordem]

As compared to glass, the main advantage of plastics is they are less expensive, lighter, in the case of polycarbonate - shatter resistant, and most important can easily be moulded into intricate shapes - such as lenses (glass has to be ground to achieve the same results), the disadvantages are that plastics scratch easily, are affected by heat & solvents and may discolor rapidly.

Given the above, what would be the benefit of coating glass with plastic?

[alien]

^^ i'd say the reason is they can have a flat glass outer face, and the contoured lens that focuses the LED sits behind the glass and is a plastic mould.... so from the outside it looks like glass, but internally the thing doing the work is infact plastic... way cheaper to produce given you can just pour the plastic into moulds.

[fordem]

Let me rephrase the question alien...

Glass = expensive, easy to break; polycarbonate = less expensive than glass, easy to mould; PMMA = cheaper than polycarbonate, moulds as easily.

Would there be any advantage, to a Chinese knockoff manufacturer, of coating the more expensive, easily broken glass with the cheaper PMMA, rather than simply using polycarbonate or just plain PMMA?

[bakerboy]

No idea why they would do that, but they do put the glass in the cheap bars and PC into the dearer and better quality bars, why well I have no idea. All I'm going off is my experiences with them

[Blakey]

You will probably find glass is a lot cheaper than polycarbonate

Glass does make a better lens more efficient. Etc. But far harder to work with. And to be honest they aren't really China knockoffs. As they aren't copies of so called "brand" named ones. not to mention you have to remember they are made in China too.

[Brooksy]

Probably just going to get a cheap eBay jobby after reading all this, if it doesn't last then I'll consider one of higher quality

[fordem]

Sheet plastic is cheaper than sheet glass - sheet glass my be cheaper than a properly formed plastic lens, but, grinding sheet glass to create the individual lens required to focus the separate LEDs will require precision grinding equipment and be a time consuming task - so the choice to use glass will result in a product that is heavier and more fragile and either has no beam pattern worth mentioning, or, your production volume is ridiculously low compared to what you could do with a moulded plastic lens.

When the aim of the game is high volume, low cost production, any one using glass is on the low end of quality (the industry leaders are advertising unbreakable polycarbonate, not toughened glass)

As for what constitutes a china knockoff - let's agree to disagree - I didn't call it a counterfeit, which is what I would define as an unauthorized copy of someone else's "brand" named product, but, for the sake of discussion, if I were to build a front bar with a feet forward winch mount, a split pan and upswept tapered, folded wings, which I will openly admit I first saw on an ARB deluxe bar, does the fact that ARB don't make a bar for my GV mean that my design doesn't use their technology?

The difference lies in who does the research & design that are going into the product.

[Blakey]

fordem wrote:

but, for the sake of discussion, if I were to build a front bar with a feet forward winch mount, a split pan and upswept tapered, folded wings, which I will openly admit I first saw on an ARB deluxe bar, does the fact that ARB don't make a bar for my GV mean that my design doesn't use their technology?

The difference lies in who does the research & design that are going into the product.

but if you're going to go that far into the specifics of if it would be like they are copying the "brand" names because they are a aluminium housing or a parabolic reflector, or they are using a heatsink. its stuff that is common to LED bar. yes there are different designs of reflectors and lenses and other shapes but to be honest they aren't creating new lenses and reflectors they are old technology. its like saying i invented the lightbulb and the guy that made it many years before me is copying me.

maybe things like pattern and stuff and overall design rather than how the light gets from the LED out to the front of the bar. its more of what can be created

[dank]

You get what you pay for in lightbars. I've been selling the Aurora brand for years and they are by far one of the best chinese lightbars on the market. They are expensive, but the light output and lenses are so much better than anything else on the market.

I've tested a heap of different brands and manufacturers and i can't find a lightbar that will beat the Aurora single and double row 5 watt bars. My problem is that the market is flooded with all of the cheap nasty shit, they do work though but the performance is lacking and out of stupid curiosity i bought another cheap lightbar with some impressive figures on paper and currently have it on my car. It's bright, but the lense and light pattern is shithouse. It's a 26.5" lightbar with 10 watt globes running at 36v putting out a claimed 24000 lumen and the aurora 20 inch pumping out 9800 lumen is a much more effective lightbar making at least double the throw down the road ~200m and keeping the light where you need it. With the Aurora there is no need for spotties, but with the other bar you definitely need spotties to fill the gap between 100-200m down the road.

Alot of people would be better off spending $200 on a set of narva 100w driving lights than a cheap LED lightbar. The auroras cost me more to buy than most of the bars advertised on eBay.

Cree chips are also not the be all and end all of LED technology. Aurora use an Osram sourced LED diode which is much more efficient and brighter than comparable Cree diodes.

[fordem]

dank wrote:

You get what you pay for in lightbars.

I wish it were that easy - and let me make it clear - I'm not disagreeing with you on the quality of the Aurora.

Something else we agree on is that the market has been flooded with cheap Chinese product - my problem, admittedly more of a consumer problem is that the cheap Chinese product is being imported, private labelled and marked up by people who have no idea what they are selling, they don't even know who makes it, just who they bought it from - that means that the end user either has to go with top dollar, brand name product or risk paying through the nose for a cheap knockoff.

I want to emphasize something you said, so quoted and underlined ...

Quote:

i bought another cheap lightbar with some impressive figures on paper and currently have it on my car. It's bright, but the lense and light pattern is shithouse. It's a 26.5" lightbar with 10 watt globes running at 36v putting out a claimed 24000 lumen and the aurora 20 inch pumping out 9800 lumen is a much more effective lightbar making at least double the throw down the road ~200m and keeping the light where you need it. With the Aurora there is no need for spotties, but with the other bar you definitely need spotties to fill the gap between 100-200m down the road.

This is the problem with all of the cheaper LED lights - poor optics - the old (and I'm quoting Blakey here) parabolic reflector doesn't work with LEDs, because LEDs are not isotropic radiators - you do need to custom design the optics to suit them - bright is not everything, putting the light where you need it is just as important.

[christover1]

Slighty off subject, but personally I can't drive with super bright driving lights,
because when I dip to low beam, it is like someone turned off the lights.
Good spread is my preference, and I've also improved my low beams.

[fordem]

^^^ 100% agreed - I also have a problem with reflected glare - ARB has a youtube video out showing their Intensity LED driving lights - half way through the video you can see a roo hopping from one side of the road to the other - the alarming thing was that when he was directly infront of the vehicle he was completely invisible - because of the glare.

[droverdave]

similarly for colour as well.

The whiter/bluer the light emitted, the worse your eyes react to it.

I prefer the slight yellow of normal bulbs. Afterall, sunlight is only 5500k colour temp or so.

[fordem]

^^^ 100% agreed - again.

I will point out though, that Hella makes the following claim for their LED lamps (which are "whiter" than their HIDs)...

Quote:

The "daylight color" of these LEDS comes closer to peoples natural viewing habits that xenon lamps, and therefore help to increase nighttime contrast awareness and reduce the fatigue of driving at night.

And whilst I'm about it, Hella make the only LED light I've seen that actually uses a reflector - the 4000 Rallye LED, has three inward facing LEDs that are reflected out to form a single beam, unlike the majority of LED lamps and bars which face the LEDs outward and then attempt to focus them with multiple lens.

[Blakey]

fordem wrote:

^^^ 100% agreed - again.

I will point out though, that Hella makes the following claim for their LED lamps (which are "whiter" than their HIDs)...

Quote:

The "daylight color" of these LEDS comes closer to peoples natural viewing habits that xenon lamps, and therefore help to increase nighttime contrast awareness and reduce the fatigue of driving at night.

And whilst I'm about it, Hella make the only LED light I've seen that actually uses a reflector - the 4000 Rallye LED, has three inward facing LEDs that are reflected out to form a single beam, unlike the majority of LED lamps and bars which face the LEDs outward and then attempt to focus them with multiple lens.

majority of cool white LED's are 5500k-6000k which is the same light as the sun on an averagely cloudy day.

as for optics the cheapest ones i have use the same style optics that aroura do with reflector and a little lens over the middle.

but as for eye health having a alot of blue in your light will cause undue stress on your eyes and fatigue you quicker than a more red light.

[atari4x4]

oi you led lightbar pimps, this jiggers any good for my hoe's?

[Matthew]

On the off chance you've only seen it at above mentioned site, ebay has the same model for $330.

[bakerboy]

I don't get why they split it like that, the spread from the 3w is no better than the 10w and just makes for a butt ugly bar

[Blakey]

i agree with bakerboy on this one that thing is nasty, plus has absolutely no advantage over it being all the same style. besides maybe using slightly more efficent LED's but still you would only be looking at minimal difference that you wouldn't notice. but get an bloody ugly bar.

unless the double part is 5W LED's but then thats gonna get dam hot. if the Heatsink isnt big enough.

but then why wouldnt it make them all double row 5W would be better in the middle than the 10W ones.

[magnat]

How would I go about wiring a 10 inch LED (2002 XL-7)
so it comes on with the High beams and an individual switch ???
I just need something discreet to fill in the blanks with the High beams..

I understand a Relay would be needed but would a standard driving light relay do for say a 54W LED Light bar ???

[bakerboy]

of course, just follow the spot light wiring thread on here and you won't go wrong

[Reubs]

magnat wrote:

I understand a Relay would be needed but would a standard driving light relay do for say a 54W LED Light bar ???

54W @ 12V is only 4.5A - therefore a 'standard driving light relay' should be good for a half-dozen 54W light bars.

IMO when buying a relay go for a brand like Narva etc, instead of something generic.

[bakerboy]

SCA relays are Narva relays FYI, still have the branding stamped on them too haha

[magnat]

Yeah just used a 40amp "Night Vision" relay and an Old Toggle switch
Turns out I have a 10 inch Flood LED... does a great job of lighting in front and to the sides of the vehicle.. Its not blindingly bright but does make spotting Roo's alot easier!