[Damo]

Ripped from this thread

Hybrid wrote:

Nice work Nik and 31. You've motivated me to start designing a track bar for my SWB. I spent a couple of hours yesterday (the boss paid me for it off course lol) sketching and have come up with a couple of designs.

Show us what you've been working on. I've got my design pretty much sorted, it's pretty basic though. Will get to have a bit of a crack at it over the weekend if i'm lucky.

[Hybrid]

Geez way to put the pressure on man. I've been trying to think outside of the box. I've basically just drawn a diff from back, top and side and then drawn the motions that I think need to be present whilst still being able to control the antiwrap. One thing I've been trying to work out is where to get a factory built non-splined slip joint so that I can get slip and rotation in the same joint. I realise you can do this by running a larger bore pipe over smaller but I'd like something with better tolerances than that. The only thing I could think of that is kind of like that is a shock absorber that is shot (no rebound). Problem is any car shock I've seen doesn't take to lateral loads too well. So then I started thinking of maybe a shock from an industrial or agricultural application. But I don't know anything about that area but what I do know is I crashed my Ninja into a van without bending the forks.... So now I'm toying with the idea of a single front fork from a trail bike. The other thing I thought of was a rear drive shaft from a hilux (which I have a spare). The cardinal joint (fixed to the cross member) gives the rotation while the splined slip joint gives the slip. That would be a bit bulky though Its a lot of trouble just because I don't want a shackle in there hehe.

So now everyone can have a laugh at all the ridiculous ideas going through my head. lol. The above doesn't really help you with the two designs I've come up with. I've done one that is along the lines of a standard bar that runs forward to a cross member. I've also done one that goes vertically from the diff to a crossmember. I'll try to do an understandable sketch, or newb cad of each later and post them up.

[royce]

any MacPherson strut will cope with lateral loads fine, they are designed for it.

[Damo]

Hybrid wrote:

Geez way to put the pressure on man. I've been trying to think outside of the box. I've basically just drawn a diff from back, top and side and then drawn the motions that I think need to be present whilst still being able to control the antiwrap. One thing I've been trying to work out is where to get a factory built non-splined slip joint so that I can get slip and rotation in the same joint. I realise you can do this by running a larger bore pipe over smaller but I'd like something with better tolerances than that. The only thing I could think of that is kind of like that is a shock absorber that is shot (no rebound). Problem is any car shock I've seen doesn't take to lateral loads too well. So then I started thinking of maybe a shock from an industrial or agricultural application. But I don't know anything about that area but what I do know is I crashed my Ninja into a van without bending the forks.... So now I'm toying with the idea of a single front fork from a trail bike. The other thing I thought of was a rear drive shaft from a hilux (which I have a spare). The cardinal joint (fixed to the cross member) gives the rotation while the splined slip joint gives the slip. That would be a bit bulky though Its a lot of trouble just because I don't want a shackle in there hehe.

So now everyone can have a laugh at all the ridiculous ideas going through my head. lol. The above doesn't really help you with the two designs I've come up with. I've done one that is along the lines of a standard bar that runs forward to a cross member. I've also done one that goes vertically from the diff to a crossmember. I'll try to do an understandable sketch, or newb cad of each later and post them up.

I'm glad that i'm the one taking the easy route for once! I was just going to chop down a GQ rear lower trailing arm and weld brackets to the diff and chassis crossmember.

[Hybrid]

I'll have to get my hands on a McPherson strut and check it out.

Damo, of all the things to go the basic route on you choose the track bar which has to go through a pretty complex range of motion lol. My rear flex is bad enough without putting something else in to bind it up more. I'll definitely be trying to get mine working on paper before I crack the welder out. I tell you what. I'll design the anti-wrap bar, you design me a quick disconnect sway bar set.

[Damo]

Hybrid wrote:

I'll have to get my hands on a McPherson strut and check it out.

Damo, of all the things to go the basic route on you choose the track bar which has to go through a pretty complex range of motion lol. My rear flex is bad enough without putting something else in to bind it up more. I'll definitely be trying to get mine working on paper before I crack the welder out. I tell you what. I'll design the anti-wrap bar, you design me a quick disconnect sway bar set.

I was going to just pull my swaybar off when I go wheeling (once every few years isn't such a PITA ) but yeah OK sure, i'll have a look at a disconnect setup.

[eldo]

hey guys i dont know much about anti wrap bars, but i did a google search in images for anti wrap bar and found this setup on a fj 40, it looks pretty good. it also looks like it solves any major binding with the, um dont know what they are called-- the ball joint type thingys.
here is the link, the pic is down the page a little
http://www.orlandsubway.net/erickards/Suspension.html

[Damo]

eldo wrote:

hey guys i dont know much about anti wrap bars, but i did a google search in images for anti wrap bar and found this setup on a fj 40, it looks pretty good. it also looks like it solves any major binding with the, um dont know what they are called-- the ball joint type thingys.
here is the link, the pic is down the page a little
http://www.orlandsubway.net/erickards/Suspension.html

The important bit of that bar is where is connects to the chassis, which you can't see in that pic.

[Hybrid]

Looks neat but damos right, cant tell much without seeing the chassis end. Thats pretty similar to how I was thinking of doing heim joints at the diff end but I would have kept both joints in the same vertical plane. Not that I suppose it makes much difference as long as they are within their range of movement. Also I wouldn't go under the axle tube. Why cut down clearance any more than you have to. I guess going under and over like that would help to evenly distribute the load across the housing though.

[eldo]

i did look at all the pictures on the entire site trying to find an image of the front of the bar and all i could find was a partial, well only a tiny bit in another picture, you couldnt tell shit... found this picture though, man i hate not having a job, all i have to do all day is find pictures for you guys on the bloody net

[royce]

look at how Bruce fixed his spring wrap problems, works great

[Damo]

royce wrote:

look at how Bruce fixed his spring wrap problems, works great

Link? Couldn't find it in Casper's members thread.

[Hybrid]

Damo wrote:

royce wrote:

look at how Bruce fixed his spring wrap problems, works great

Link? Couldn't find it in Casper's members thread.

Maybe he just took his rear drive shaft out hehe

[Damo]

Hybrid wrote:

Damo wrote:

royce wrote:

look at how Bruce fixed his spring wrap problems, works great

Link? Couldn't find it in Casper's members thread.

Maybe he just took his rear drive shaft out hehe

Oh. For a minute there I thought Royce had some actual tech input. I should have known better

[31zook]

I've heard that track bar shacks work betta with the chassis connection on the bottom and track bar ontop? Or a twin shackle setup? I know ya don't want any shackles so here is my idea...


BHAHAHAHAHAHA ghetto paint skillz. So thats one end with out a shackle and no clunkage. On the other end you would have to stick the bush on the outside pipe and cut out the middle of it to fit the internal pipe. Thats what i would do if i went spring over...

Do you get enuff axle wrap to warrent a bar on a sprung under 1300 on 33s?

[31zook]

Oh and me and nik rocked up on the day with a 4pack of "V" and a couple of mags to have a crack at it...drawings

[Hybrid]

Its actually a sprung under 1600 efi on 31's with 4.9 transfer gears lol. Will be supercharged soon too. Offroad I do appear to get a bit of axle wrap. say its labouring up an incline under load when I unload it (put the clutch in) the rear shudders and theres that "bang bang bang" as the spring corrects from the wrap.

[31zook]

Um mine use to do that till i pulled my diff apart and then put it back together. I thought i put it together the same as i pulled it apart but its now better and i can't decribe why...lol So its prob not axle wrap causeing the banging... This was running 6.5s 31s and a heavy right foot...

[royce]

Damo wrote:

Hybrid wrote:

Damo wrote:

royce wrote:

look at how Bruce fixed his spring wrap problems, works great

Link? Couldn't find it in Casper's members thread.

Maybe he just took his rear drive shaft out hehe

Oh. For a minute there I thought Royce had some actual tech input. I should have known better

no real real tech

all I am saying is some of the problem has already been described, most sierra rear springs are jsut too soft

[Damo]

royce wrote:

all I am saying is some of the problem has already been described, most sierra rear springs are jsut too soft

My springs were pretty stiff but they did control wrap reasonably well. Since having the diff out I have removed a leaf, hence wanting something to help out with spring wrap.

[royce]

something I have thought for a while is whilst you get spring rate that looks good in the driveway on some milk crates always seems to end up wallowing on climbs and leaning funny turning down ruts, I used to run pretty stiff springs and now Bruce has OME heavies with an EXTRA leaf in them, climbs well, dropping down holes the stiff rear forces the front to flex and not the whole thing rock into it

[Damo]

royce wrote:

something I have thought for a while is whilst you get spring rate that looks good in the driveway on some milk crates always seems to end up wallowing on climbs and leaning funny turning down ruts, I used to run pretty stiff springs and now Bruce has OME heavies with an EXTRA leaf in them, climbs well, dropping down holes the stiff rear forces the front to flex and not the whole thing rock into it

Interesting. I guess that's the good thing about leaves, you can tweak the spring rate but adding/removing leaves.

Even with heavy springs I still think my new engine is going to make a mess of them so it will be getting a track bar regardless.

[turbo_deo]

Okay guys I understand the antiwrap or "trackbar" idea, but my question is do I need one on the front diff aswell as the back? The bars I got with my zook, not on it are just like a single 4 link bar one for each diff but I am unsure if the front one is required

Josh

[BlueSuzy]

When in 4wd, both diffs will wrap soft leafs..

[alien]

usually the front isnt required as you dont often go faster than around 60km/hr in 4wd... and even then on takeoff the weight all goes to the rear so the front is less prone to wrapping anyway.

here's pics of my setup:




the lower hole on the shackle has since been lopped off.

a lot of people said i'd smash these on everything i came across but thus far i think i've only hit the shackle once - sure the bars have scraped here and there, but only enough to take paint off, never gouged the metal.

The main benefit of this is it does not bind or put stress on the housing, and, if you were so inclined you could build the same setup with a 'boomerang' shaped bar to increase clearance.

The lower joints also dont stick any further down that factory SPUA leaves.

[inbits]

What about using a 4x4 trailer hitch they twist without resistance they dont slip though

[Teracis]

I like the solution Alien has used.

Is there a way to do it SPUA with the bar going to the top (basically alien's but upside down) so as not to lose any clearance?

I have no use for one of these yet (stiff springs and 1.3 without reduction yet) but thought I'd find out.

[alien]

SPUA you shouldnt really need a track bar... the reason i needed it is cos my leaves are dead flat - and im now only running 1 main leaf and half the 2nd leaf (just the military wrap half) - so there aint much spring to stop it wrapping.

im sure you could run it upside down, but you'd have to think about how to re-work the bumpstops and avoid the shackle/bar hitting the chassis on compression.

[Teracis]

alien wrote:

SPUA you shouldnt really need a track bar... the reason i needed it is cos my leaves are dead flat - and im now only running 1 main leaf and half the 2nd leaf (just the military wrap half) - so there aint much spring to stop it wrapping.

im sure you could run it upside down, but you'd have to think about how to re-work the bumpstops and avoid the shackle/bar hitting the chassis on compression.

True. Yeh as I said, I'm not going to need one (at least for a bloody long time) just thinking of ideas. Surely it could be done though. Provided you didn't create interference.

[sleeperzook]

I believe what alien had used is called a cal-track system?? My brother used a similar setup on his 4agte KE30 corolla and it worked well. Obviously its a SPUA set up with no clearance to worry about though!!

The position of the contact on the spring is less imperative because of aliens military wrap spring. For the majority of people who only have one leaf that extends to the pivot point, the weakest point is half way between the end of the second leaf and the pivot point. This is ideally where the contact point should be. Atleast that how I understand it

I'll keep watching this thread for any design developments because my turbo GTi with reduction and 31's can load my new OME leafs up pretty good if you need the torque.