[ajsr]

BlueSuzy wrote:

Dont use the whole Snake. It locks the throttle on.

Wil anyone post their spair bulge?

Hi

it took me years to get my bulge, Im not just giving it away

[Joe]

atari4x4 wrote:

Joe wrote:

atari4x4 wrote:

will probably be in the pipe from the airbox to the throttle body....

sell it to cairns27 & profit

bye

A proper answer i was expecting you to say it's under the back seat or something

under the back seat or in the shed is probably the best spot to fit one.

I'm gunna post it to you

[atari4x4]

Joe wrote:

atari4x4 wrote:

Joe wrote:

atari4x4 wrote:

will probably be in the pipe from the airbox to the throttle body....

sell it to cairns27 & profit

bye

A proper answer i was expecting you to say it's under the back seat or something

under the back seat or in the shed is probably the best spot to fit one.

I'm gunna post it to you

prick

I'm going to on sell it to cairns27 & spend the profit on coke & hoe's

bye

[twitchy]

Deego, put in layman's terms Hiclones are shit!!!!

Snake oil however does have some if only limited lubricating effect & works better for rust prevention than ERPs!!!

[royce]

Joe wrote:

A few days after i bought Kate's GV i was looking through the service history book and the silly old fart that bought it new had a hiclone fitted
I've been meaning to look for it to take it out but i keep forgetting about it where do they put them?

Unlike all these useless dicks with no clue I have actual real experience with hiclones

In a 1.3 carby sierra, you could get the impression that power delivery was different, not better, not worse, just different
Didnt make any difference to fuel usage

Same Hiclone in a V6 GV, made a noticeable difference to fuel consumption, so much so the hiclone stayed there, similar results on another V6 Vit with an owner that looked after heavy vehicle maintenance so measured EVERYTHING


The principle of getting the intake charge to swirl is real and the reason everyone stole the Hemispherical chamber design form Chrysler, whether or not a hiclone introduces any amount of useful swirl and of the right amount to make a difference on your chosen setup os probably a bit hard to work out before hand

[cairns27]

In my truck, it sat directly over the carby.I kept a log book .It improved my fuel consumption.

I didn't notice any extra power, but it had too much anyway.

bye

[Joe]

royce wrote:

Joe wrote:

A few days after i bought Kate's GV i was looking through the service history book and the silly old fart that bought it new had a hiclone fitted
I've been meaning to look for it to take it out but i keep forgetting about it where do they put them?

Unlike all these useless dicks with no clue I have actual real experience with hiclones

In a 1.3 carby sierra, you could get the impression that power delivery was different, not better, not worse, just different
Didnt make any difference to fuel usage

Same Hiclone in a V6 GV, made a noticeable difference to fuel consumption, so much so the hiclone stayed there, similar results on another V6 Vit with an owner that looked after heavy vehicle maintenance so measured EVERYTHING


The principle of getting the intake charge to swirl is real and the reason everyone stole the Hemispherical chamber design form Chrysler, whether or not a hiclone introduces any amount of useful swirl and of the right amount to make a difference on your chosen setup os probably a bit hard to work out before hand

Fair enough i might just leave it in there then

[atari4x4]

if the hi clone is fitted before the throttle body, doesn't all that swirling air get disturbed by the butterfly in the throttle body?

[ajsr]

I like gus have issues beliving that there would be any real measurable advantage to an EFI engine , particularly fitted before the throttlebody.
on a carby engine however , particularly on something like a single carb 6 or 8 cyl engine where each cyl draws from a commom small plenum yes I guess they could possibly help with fuel atomisation as its a real issue especialy on 6 cyl like holden reds and ford 6's

and I'm not saying they dont work, I reserve my opinion until I have some real facts to base my argument/ opinion on

[atari4x4]

why aren't they factory fitted to all vehicles if they're such an amazing thing... you'd think car manufactures would be all over something that increases fuel economy & power?

[ajsr]

atari4x4 wrote:

why aren't they factory fitted to all vehicles if they're such an amazing thing... you'd think car manufactures would be all over something that increases fuel economy & power?

this is a fairly good point, in these green days manufatures such as toyota , honda nissan etc would be all over this like a rash if it had and real merrit.
I mean 0.5 a litre/100kms better economy is a major selling point these days

[atari4x4]

car manufactures do fit hi-clones & have done for years.... but they fit them in the exhaust manifold & attach it to a shaft & another hi-clone all neatly packaged away in 2 nice snail like housings.

[BlueSuzy]

mmm snailcolone

[sideways]

royce wrote:

The principle of getting the intake charge to swirl is real and the reason everyone stole the Hemispherical chamber design form Chrysler

And Chrysler stole it off Peugeot.

I've got a Popular Mechanics magazine from the early 1920s where on the back cover an item just like the Hiclone is proudly advertised. It goes under the carby though, intead of some where up stream like the Hiclone generally is.

I'd be interested to see any real, independent data on Hiclones.

[Polar_Bear]

thanks for the heads up to that website, ive been hamging out to get a set of skyhooks for ages now, finally found em

http://kalecoauto.com/index.php?main_pa ... 304v4nqoj7

[royce]

ajsr wrote:

I like gus have issues beliving that there would be any real measurable advantage to an EFI engine , particularly fitted before the throttlebody.
on a carby engine however , particularly on something like a single carb 6 or 8 cyl engine where each cyl draws from a commom small plenum yes I guess they could possibly help with fuel atomisation as its a real issue especialy on 6 cyl like holden reds and ford 6's

and I'm not saying they dont work, I reserve my opinion until I have some real facts to base my argument/ opinion on

swirl isnt about atomisation, its about the fuel air charge swirling in the chamber so you get a more complete burn, but yeah all the crap in the way must have an effect on the results, but it would have an effect either way


yeah the in practice use of a hiclone is really flawed (whos to say on some engines it might work if the fins pointed the other way) but I doubt even if we took all the smart people on here (all 3 of them) and go them working on the theory of where a hiclone might or might not work using all the formulas and engineering software out there I am sure they still couldnt say for sure up front, so its wrong to say they are snake oil

[royce]

atari4x4 wrote:

why aren't they factory fitted to all vehicles if they're such an amazing thing... you'd think car manufactures would be all over something that increases fuel economy & power?

Why dont all cars have free flowing exhausts? I cant imagine it would cost any more to build

Lot of engines are designed to swirl (usually in the head) but a lot of engines probably didnt have utmost efficiency in their design criteria

[SuziBlu]

Id hazard at a guess, that IF the swirler were to be put just in front of the valve, then it may work.

If you look at a hiclone, all I see is a restriction to flow, and that means less, not more.

I would love to see these charletones show Dyno proof, but, as it is utter rubbish, they cannot.

[just_cruizin]

The best place to look at is truck engines and the requirements for the euro ratings, scavenging is critical but by the time air goes into a plenum then through valves any preconditioning is pointless. Head design is where they spend their money

[SuziBlu]

Trucks/diesels and direct injection, are a totally different kettle of fish, as are direct injection petrol engines, these are working at utmost efficiency now.

The older diesels with glow plugs/precombustion chamber are very different, far less efficient.

[Dr_Snapid]

I fitted a heater blower in my r31 skyline intake once (teenage curiosity)

Car didn't idle with it on LOL

[BlueSuzy]

Dr_Snapid wrote:

I fitted a heater blower in my r31 skyline intake once (teenage curiosity)

Car didn't idle with it on LOL

Engines don't like hot air.

[Dr_Snapid]

Lol it was only the blower not the heater too

[just_cruizin]

Whether its DI or not the airflow is what we are considering. It's already been accepted that fuel atomisation is minimal.

On that note though a swirling effect would, thinking about it be detrimental to atomisation. The cyclonic type swirl would actually cause the fuel to the outside wall of the carby/ plenum / intake by centrifugal force. Many filters use this to coalesce liquid and mist from gas flows.

If improvements are recorded there would be a lot of other factor that could otherwise contribute the results that would otherwise not be recorded, least of which would be the driver and any style changes or perception or the fact they don't want to admit they've wasted money.

Science doesn't support how a restriction can improve flow, the only time profile conditions are proven is in gas metering where turbulence is detrimental and laminar flow is required, orifice plates and ultrasonic meters etc

[Dr_Snapid]

Grab an empty coke bottle. Fill with water. Now empty it as fast as you can.

The fastest way is to invert and give the bottle a strong swirl. The rotating water comes out faster than any other method.

So does a hiclone spin? Or is it stationary but causes the air to have to rotate to pass it? Maybe getting a rotating air current actually helps air move through the restricted intake port more easily? I dunno but couldnt rule it out. Ive tried more unusual things, as stated earlier...

[stocker]

Your Example of a Coke Bottle Is Flawed.

Dr_Snapid wrote:

Grab an empty coke bottle. Fill with water. Now empty it as fast as you can.


The fastest way is to invert and give the bottle a strong swirl. The rotating water comes out faster than any other method.

Place a Valve infront of the exit of the coke bottle and restrict the Flow of water. You will Get Eddy Currents in the water which will naturally fight the progression of water through the restricted entry, without redesigning the Exit point (or entry point which ever way you wish too look at it) To Minimise the Eddy current your Swirly water is a fruitless attempt at a fast Exit (intake plenum) or Entry (to the Combustion chamber)

Pressure Is the way to improve fuel economy

[royce]

stocker wrote:

Your Example of a Coke Bottle Is Flawed.

Dr_Snapid wrote:

Grab an empty coke bottle. Fill with water. Now empty it as fast as you can.


The fastest way is to invert and give the bottle a strong swirl. The rotating water comes out faster than any other method.

Place a Valve infront of the exit of the coke bottle and restrict the Flow of water. You will Get Eddy Currents in the water which will naturally fight the progression of water through the restricted entry, without redesigning the Exit point (or entry point which ever way you wish too look at it) To Minimise the Eddy current your Swirly water is a fruitless attempt at a fast Exit (intake plenum) or Entry (to the Combustion chamber)

Pressure Is the way to improve fuel economy

Your theory of the valve is also flawed, shit still whips around that no wories

[stocker]

I have no doubt about either allegation...

You appear to have an uncomprimising stance on the subject.

[Dr_Snapid]

stocker wrote:

Your Example of a Coke Bottle Is Flawed.

Dr_Snapid wrote:

Grab an empty coke bottle. Fill with water. Now empty it as fast as you can.


The fastest way is to invert and give the bottle a strong swirl. The rotating water comes out faster than any other method.

Place a Valve infront of the exit of the coke bottle and restrict the Flow of water. You will Get Eddy Currents in the water which will naturally fight the progression of water through the restricted entry, without redesigning the Exit point (or entry point which ever way you wish too look at it) To Minimise the Eddy current your Swirly water is a fruitless attempt at a fast Exit (intake plenum) or Entry (to the Combustion chamber)

Pressure Is the way to improve fuel economy

I didnt really follow any of that, sorry. The exit is already restricted, much like a valve. Its a classic bottleneck... Literally.
I was using the example to demonstrate that rotating fluid may pass through a restriction faster than non rotating in certain circumstances. Im not suggesting hiclones arent snake oil, or that they are, just thought it was interesting.

I dont actually know if a hiclone spins although i suspect it doesnt, it has vanes that direct the flow into a spiral?

Although having just thought about it, i think the coke bottle works because the vortex allows air back into the bottle... This doesnt apply in the case of a hiclone.

Didnt mean to hijack the topic OP

[JrZook]

Dr_Snapid wrote:

it has vanes that direct the flow into a spiral?

Yes