[Mattmorgo]

Just trying too work out harness angles. In my cage as it stands the taxi bar sets about 175% angle (180 being flat). My google search had me following links too no real use, these harnesses will never be scruitneered by cams etc. so the thing I'm wanting too know will I be damaging my back in a heavy roll over, due too the angle of the harness. At the end of the day I can Put another taxi bar further down but ultimately am happy with the look of the cage as it is.

[Fatzook]

I'll see if I can find the link, but from memory, anywhere from horizontal to 10 degrees below horizontal (where horizontal is shoulder height) is Ok.

[Mattmorgo]

Thanks Peter I searched and just couldn't find it. Apologies for my wording but basically as the taxi bar stands it is lightly higher then my shoulders

[Red89]

Mattmorgo wrote:

Thanks Peter I searched and just couldn't find it. Apologies for my wording but basically as the taxi bar stands it is lightly higher then my shoulders

As far as I know that is how they should be.

[SierraDan]

Red89 wrote:

Mattmorgo wrote:

Thanks Peter I searched and just couldn't find it. Apologies for my wording but basically as the taxi bar stands it is lightly higher then my shoulders

As far as I know that is how they should be.

Thats how i always thought they had to be. So the lap section holds you down in the seat and the shoulder parts keep you back in the seat.

[Mattmorgo]

Righto thanks guys, if I put the harness over taxi bar and bolt too floor that's alright isn't it? As all the load will be on the bar work not at the 90 degree angle?

[royce]

http://www.camsmanual.com.au/pdf/10_gen ... 2012-1.pdf

page 4, I would think a harness mount higher than your shoulders would see you rise up in a prang

[Red89]

royce wrote:

http://www.camsmanual.com.au/pdf/10_gen_req/GQ10_Schedule_I_2012-1.pdf

page 4, I would think a harness mount higher than your shoulders would see you rise up in a prang

Seems you might be correct, I always thought it was 10 degrees either side of shoulder hieght and the lap belt takes all your wieght when rolled over otherwise you risk crushing your collarbones, however it does appear to be level or 10 degress below.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavist ... s_install/

[Fatzook]

Fatzook wrote:

I'll see if I can find the link, but from memory, anywhere from horizontal to 10 degrees below horizontal (where horizontal is shoulder height) is Ok.

royce wrote:

http://www.camsmanual.com.au/pdf/10_gen_req/GQ10_Schedule_I_2012-1.pdf

page 4, I would think a harness mount higher than your shoulders would see you rise up in a prang

Thanks Royce. Thats the link I was looking for.

[Mattmorgo]

royce wrote:

http://www.camsmanual.com.au/pdf/10_gen_req/GQ10_Schedule_I_2012-1.pdf

page 4, I would think a harness mount higher than your shoulders would see you rise up in a prang

Thanks Royce I still can't access that link from the cams website it says broken that's why I couldn't find it. Thanks too fz and red for your help aswell

[Red89]

Knew I had seen it somewhere, if you watch the Tuff Truck DVD from last year you will see the WA guys Team Go Disco where pinged at stage 1 scrutineering for their taxi bar being too low and the official said the bar had to be at a hieght where the belt is level or declining down towards the driver. Perhaps Team Army Barbie can clarify.

[Mattmorgo]

That's what confused me is I thought they wanted under your shoulder and u remember seeing in the dvd the guys failing scruteneering. I also saw this picture of 11_evl rig and they look high in this aswell

[Red89]

Here is the pic, you can see the old taxi bar level with shoulder height and the new approved unpainted taxi bar clearly above.

[Mattmorgo]

Whilst I have no problem with an open discussion I think I will just go with cams as its quite black and white by there rules. I do however encourage more discussion on this.

[royce]

Yeah ill pick cams and the FIA as knowing whats what over any 4wd comp or association in Australia

FWIW the whole system of running the belts over a bar on the cage with the seats and belts mounted on a different plane isnt something youll see in any other form of motorsport either, they all run back at the right angle and mount there

[Fatzook]

royce wrote:

Yeah ill pick cams and the FIA as knowing whats what over any 4wd comp or association in Australia

FWIW the whole system of running the belts over a bar on the cage with the seats and belts mounted on a different plane isnt something youll see in any other form of motorsport either, they all run back at the right angle and mount there

This is true.

I find it interesting that taxi bar location is scrutinised so heavily, but seat construction is not. Any seat that has allowances for harnesses to pass through should also meet CAMS/ FIA approvals. I wonder how many aftermarket seats would withstand the shifting forces caused by a 120kg body shifting heavily under a harness?

[royce]

I was just googling taxi bars, their primary purpose is to restrain the back of the seat (stop it folding back I guess) and one reference was to shoulder height or no more than 4" below, no talk of belts over it

I think they are an ANDRA thing, dont remember seeing anything of it in the cams book

[Mattmorgo]

royce wrote:

FWIW the whole system of running the belts over a bar on the cage with the seats and belts mounted on a different plane isnt something youll see in any other form of motorsport either, they all run back at the right angle and mount there

Sorry but would you be able too upload a photo of an example I can't my head around those words

[royce]

casper as an example, in a sedan the belts would be mounted either to the parcel shelf or base of the rear seat where the rear belts would normally mount

[Mattmorgo]

royce wrote:

casper as an example, in a sedan the belts would be mounted either to the parcel shelf or base of the rear seat where the rear belts would normally mount

That's what I thought you ment, how Bruce's harnesses are bolted straight behind his shoulders?

[Fatzook]

jpg name says it all.

[Red89]

Fatzook wrote:

royce wrote:

Yeah ill pick cams and the FIA as knowing whats what over any 4wd comp or association in Australia

FWIW the whole system of running the belts over a bar on the cage with the seats and belts mounted on a different plane isnt something youll see in any other form of motorsport either, they all run back at the right angle and mount there

This is true.

I find it interesting that taxi bar location is scrutinised so heavily, but seat construction is not. Any seat that has allowances for harnesses to pass through should also meet CAMS/ FIA approvals. I wonder how many aftermarket seats would withstand the shifting forces caused by a 120kg body shifting heavily under a harness?

It appears Tuff Trucks issue is with the seat in part, their ruling is the the harness cant touch the seat at all between the drivers shoulders and the taxi bar incase the seat collapses in a rollover.

[Fatzook]

Watched the vid. Just looks like some bloke trying to justify his possition. If the rules required a certain level of seat be fitted, there would have been sweet FA competitors there that year, as most were running OEM style seats.

And having the taxi bar higher than the shoulders ( and by as much as they did) is not going to remove any load from the seats at all.

[got_bar_work]

royce wrote:

I was just googling taxi bars, their primary purpose is to restrain the back of the seat (stop it folding back I guess) and one reference was to shoulder height or no more than 4" below, no talk of belts over it

I think they are an ANDRA thing, dont remember seeing anything of it in the cams book

The seat in our drag car at work is bolted to the taxi bar then the straps bolt to a bar back where the shelf should be
Most drag cars run crappy folded up alloy sheet as seats So that would be why the need the bar to bolt to

[want33s]

I have learned during my buggy build that every man and his dog that runs a competition has different bloody rules.
Do some research into the rules of the events YOU want to enter.

My car needs two harness bars due to my and my navi's shoulder heights being 100mm different.

[tanshi]

CCDA also says shoulder height.

if you buy a monza harness the instructions say between 0 and 10 degrees below