[christover1]

I've loaned an IR gun,
and fitted an after market water temp guage.
And fitted a seems to be working clutch fan.
IR gun reads lower than temp guage (at the thermstat housing).
After market temp guage moves around a lot more than the stock one.

What temps is right/best?

I understand from my research that EFI engines run hotter than carbs,

So what temps should it be running?

Highest on after market gauge was 102*C on a hot day in crawling traffic.
At this point IR gun read 96*C fluctuating slightly, at the thermostat housing.
Stock gauge sitting just under half.
(Could smell hot coolant, probably spillage )

Mostly sat around 90 to 95 today on after market gauge,
with gun reading 90*C

Can't find any specific G16 efi figures.
But general figures suggest 90 - 100*C as normal for efi engines,
with fans kicking in at between 100 and 110 *C.

cheers all.

[christover1]

PS.
When shutting off engine at 90 to 100 the clutch fan stopped
at almost the same instant engine did.
When cold it free spins a few turns before stopping.

[Built4thrashing]

christover1 wrote:

PS.
When shutting off engine at 90 to 100 the clutch fan stopped
at almost the same instant engine did.
When cold it free spins a few turns before stopping.

That sounds right. As the viscous fluid gets hot it locks the fan clutch creating maximum cooling.

[Gwagensteve]

You are overthinking it Chris. Engine and radiator are stock- just drive it. It shouldn't overheat.

Steve.

[christover1]

Built4thrashing wrote:

christover1 wrote:

PS.
When shutting off engine at 90 to 100 the clutch fan stopped
at almost the same instant engine did.
When cold it free spins a few turns before stopping.

That sounds right. As the viscous fluid gets hot it locks the fan clutch creating maximum cooling.

Yeah pretty sure it works.

With a temporary solid fixed fan, it ran much cooler temps,
Around 75 - 80*C with a peak at 85*C
I think too cold for happy engines.


Having a panic attack over new donk

[christover1]

I'll be paying for the motor over next 3 years,
so just making sure.

Lucky I am a fuss pot,
or may have missed the non functioning clutch fan

[Vits93]

Info from the suzuki book.

Temp. at which
valve begins to open
J20 and
H25 engines : 82  2
C (179  3.6
F)
G16 engine : 88  2
C (190  3.6
F)

Temp. at which valve
becomes fully open
J20 and
H25 engines: 95
C (203
F)
G16 engine : 100
C (212
F)

Valve lift
J20 and
H25 engines: More than
: 8 mm at 95
C (203
F)
G16 engine : More than
: 8 mm at 100

COOLING FAN CLUTCH

Fluid is enclosed in the cooling fan clutch and at its center front,
there is a bimetal whose thermal reaction and the engine speed
control the cooling fan speed.
The relation between the temperature detected by the fan clutch
and operation of the fan clutch is as follows.
While the fan clutch detects a temperature lower than 50
C, it remains
OFF and the fan revolution speed is constant (400 to
900 r/min. (rpm) : J20 and H25 engines, 600 to 1,300 r/min.(rpm)
: G16 engine) regardless of the engine speed. As the temperature
reaches 50
C to 70
C, the fan clutch turns ON gradually and the
fan revolution speed increases.
A temperature exceeding 70
C causes the fan clutch to turn ON
and the fan revolution speed to increase in proportion with the engine
speed.
Once the engine speed exceeds 4,000 r/min.(rpm), however, the
fan revolution speed becomes constant (2,350 to 2,650 r/min.(rpm)
: J20 and H25 engines, 2,800 to 3,100 r/min.(rpm) : G16 engine).

[Gwagensteve]

The problem is that you are measuring the same thing 3 different ways- and it's impossible to know which to believe. Use one method. It doesn't matter which one ( but there's no reason not to use the stock gauge) a stock vitara won't overheat until the gauge is in the red, so there is your guide.

Use your thermostat rating as the minimum useful figure.

If you don't want to read the stock gauge because you have an aftermarket gauge, disconnect the factory gauge it or you will second guess it forever.

Anything under 100 means there's stuff all load on the cooling system.

Steve.

[christover1]

Thanks Vits93 mate.
Just what I needed.
Ya bloods worth bottling.

Looks like mines running about right.

My owners manual says 82 not 88 for the thermostat,
but doubt that will matter.

[christover1]

My old motor boiled, with steam coming out of the over flow bottle, twice.
Neither time did the stock guage show a problem.
Thjo other issues could be responsible for that.
So won't be trusting stock gauge,
but it does seem to sit in the right place

[Gwagensteve]

christover1 wrote:

Thanks Vits93 mate.
Just what I needed.
Ya bloods worth bottling.

Sorry if I'm missing something, but how does that help? It's nice to know, but I'm not sure it's any help in knowing what's normal.

If I'm reading it right, it sort of implies that "normal" is anything between something slightly under 88c to slightly over 100c, but it is not clear how much.

I don't think that's more meaningful that staring at the stock gauge and making sure it doesn't go into the red.

Not being a hater, I just think too much measuring can equal too much confusion.

[christover1]

Gwagensteve wrote:

I just think too much measuring can equal too much confusion.

Yes it can,
hence the desire to know what it should be.
So I know what the guage is telling me.
Best to see a problem before it becomes one.
Never expected a aftermarket guage to be 100% accurate.
Just a guide.

A normal operating temp between 90 and 100 is roughly what I'm getting.
This is a good thing.
Which ever guage I choose is happy figures.

This engine has to outlast the repayments

[royce]

anything under 80, worry you've lost coolant

anything over 110, start thinking about pulling over to allow it to cool

fortunately running temps are far from precise and will move about a lot with no concern

the reason it reads lower with teh infared gauge is the alloy of the thermostat housing only has coolant one side, its all cool air the other side so it will never get fully to temp, even if you poked it into teh radiator it would show a bit cooler too

[christover1]

Thanks Royce.
Much appreciate your imput/input (sp?)
And everyone elses.

[Rhinoman]

I did a load of tests with IR temperature sensors, including several thousand dollars worth of Fluke thermal imager. The conclusion that I came to is they can be good for comparative tests but they are next to useless for taking an exact measurement. The problem is that they measure infra-red radiation and not heat (sort of obvious) but different surfaces give off different amounts of IR at the same temperature. This is known as emissivity and it varies considerably for different materials and for different finishes, for instance polish a piece of metal and it can read 10 or 20C lower than an oxidised piece. At work we spray everything a flat grey colour before using the imager which helps a lot.
The thermostat housing will have a temperature differential between the inside and outside which will also reduce the reading.

[Rhinoman]

christover1 wrote:

My owners manual says 82 not 88 for the thermostat,
but doubt that will matter.

There are two thermostats for different climates.

[christover1]

Cheers for that Rhinoman.
Appears my after market guage is good enough.

Was mainly making sure the new 2nd hand fan was doing its job.

[Gwagensteve]

christover1 wrote:

Cheers for that Rhinoman.
Appears the gauge my car came with is good enough.

Was mainly making sure the new 2nd hand fan was doing its job.

There's a reason there are no exact markings on a stock gauge. There's a broad permissible range. Stop worrying about it and drive the car. If you want an "actual" measurement (which is only likely to confuse things more) run a thermocouple under the top radiator hose and read the actual coolant temperature.

Steve.

[royce]

did you test your aftermarket gauge?

pop the sender in a pot of boiling water on your camp stove and see what it reads

[christover1]

It is no good having a piece of equipment,
without the knowledge to understand what it is telling me.

Nothing wrong with getting educated.

Contary to popular opinion,
I don't know everything...


yet

[christover1]

royce wrote:

did you test your aftermarket gauge?

pop the sender in a pot of boiling water on your camp stove and see what it reads

No, never entered my head,
but did test the thermostat.
Stat was perfect.

I not after an exact figure,
just a guide so I know all the jobs I have done are working properley.
Used to old carb engines that supposed to run cooler.
Now I know hotter is normal, alls cool

Warrantee on engine needs certain jobs and reciepts, too.
Most of which should be done in the next couple of weeks.

[Brett]

just to throw a spanner in the works, my thermostat housing never goes over 90 on my gun. thats into it on the sand on a 30+ day and 31's on it. in my book anything over 95- 100 and your starting to push the cooling system. what oil are you running?

cursing around town it sits around 79 -83. i have been meaning to put a hotter thermostat (88) in it but i haven't found one yet.

[Westie]

Note .... If you let the water level drop in the Radiator to a point wher the pickup sensor is, you will not get a reading as the sensor will NOT register steam. The sensor NEEDS to in water that is why sometime the gauge will show normal but the water is boiling. I have had this happen....

[christover1]

I still got cheap no name oil in it to flush the motor.
In process of changing oil and filter now, to 15 / 40

[christover1]

It will get a warmer thermostat in winter if needed.

Todays weather is mild, temp guage never got over 90

[CairnsZook]

I've just installed a Vit clutch fan myself. I was previously running the 1.3 mechanical fan on a G16B with Sierra radiator.

My Baleno temp gauge (grafted into Sierra dash) constantly sat on half, and the aftermarket gauge was always steady on just under 90.
In hot conditions, with lots of low speed, low-range driving, the temp would increase to around 100.
The only time it ever got any hotter, was again, low speed work on the west coast, after I had completely destroyed the fan.
Interestingly, the 300km highway trip home saw the temp sit on normal the whole way.
The airflow through the radiator alone was enough to keep things cool, and that's with the A/C condensor in front of the radiator too.

Since installing the Vit fan, which sits snugly inside the Sierra shroud, the Baleno gauge has always remained steady at about half.
The aftermarket gauge does fluctuate a little, usually between 90 and 95. This is just around town, I haven't tested it off road or on the highway yet.

[christover1]

New question.
I will be changing my thermostat before a possible Simpson Desert trip next year.
Found out that hi flow thermostats exist.
At temps of 82 and 88 for Vitaras.
They Claim opening at same temps, but higher water flow,
negating the need for running cooler thermostats..
Anyone used them?

I realise too high a flow would not hold water in radiator long enough to cool it.
But sounds like worth a bit of research.

http://www.tridon.com.au/Products/Produ ... 9&P=381955

[jdk81]

I use a high flow thermo stat, but one that fully opens at a higher temp.

My logic, was because when its winter (9 months of the year), and my car is a softop, surprisingly my car is cold. So this makes my heater core hotter, and me warmer!
Whilst it still has the capacity to flow more to help transfer the heat.

I cant see it being a problem, when its hot. carry a standard spare if you wish

[christover1]

jdk81 wrote:

I use a high flow thermo stat, but one that fully opens at a higher temp.

My logic, was because when its winter (9 months of the year), and my car is a softop, surprisingly my car is cold. So this makes my heater core hotter, and me warmer!
Whilst it still has the capacity to flow more to help transfer the heat.

I cant see it being a problem, when its hot. carry a standard spare if you wish

Good point, I always carry a spare anyway.

[Gwagensteve]

Speeding the flow of through the thermostat reduces the abilty of the coolant to gain and shed heat.

Put your hand on something hot for a second.... then hold it on there for a minute - your hand gets hotter if you hold in on the hot surface for a long time because there's more time for heat transfer.

It's difficult to work out what problem a high flow thermostat is fixing. Perhaps (just perhaps) if a larger radiator has been fitted there is a case for a higher flow thermostat. I can't see the reasoning for a high flow thermostat with a stock engine and cooling system.

Steve.

PS you do realise you're more likely to freeze your cooling system than overheat it in the simpson? Daytime temperatures are unlikely to exceed 25˚ anytime it's sensible to travel there, but it gets seriously cold overnight.