[disco]

hi everyone,

i am very much a car beginner, but my trusty falcon has rolled past 250k and i'm moving to darwin soon for my girlfriends job, and want to do a lot of exploring the NT over the next few years

anyway, after doing a lot of research (and honest assessment of my finances) i have narrowed it down to a vitara or xtrail, with the vitara most likely

but i have some questions

1) Diesel. I had my heart set on the diesel because of my planned offroading, and because most reviews i had read said it was the pick of the vitara line up. However, I have also heard (from suzuki directly i might add) that you cannot use these for short trips. that the carbon gets caught in the filter and the engine needs to heat up first. they've told me i need to do 100km in one trip at least once a week, and mostly more. this sounds bizarre to me, frankly.

does anyone know anything more about it?

2) Petrol. The whole diesel thing has got me rattled a bit to the extent I am reconsidering the Xtrail. I know we are a forum of suzuki lovers, so my questions was whether I was perhaps overrating at how the petrol engines run.

3) Recent editions. As I might end up getting a 2010 or 2009 model if i can at a cheaper price, i am trying to figure out if there is somewhere i can go that will show the differences in the models. the best suzuki queensland could tell me was that post 2009 it had 4 disc-brakes, and otherwise "pretty much the same". Yes, I knew that, but I am still hoping to get specifics about the differences from year to year.

4) Lift. I've been told that a 40mm lift would void the warranty. The whole warranty?!? Is this true? Also - I've been told the 40mm is the maximum you can raise it. It is wise to do the full 40mm or maybe do a 30mm instead? I wouldn't want to push to the max.. would i?

okay... thanks to everyone who helps out, it is tough getting reliable information when it comes to new cars it seems

[buzbox]

1) No diesils in the land of Oz

2) x trails are a good car but don't have low range, which makes it inappropriate for propper 4WD use. You can use them on the beach and very light 4wd'ing

3) Grand Vitara's are nice, do have low range, and with minimal mods will get you much further than an Xtrail

4) If you get an early model Grand vitara, chances are it won't have warranty, but generally you can only get up to 2" lift kits for GV's

By the sounds of things, you are after a semi decent soft roader which will get you to campsites. If I were to explore NT, I'd definitly get something with low range, mainly so you can get to those special secluded locations. I think the Grand Vitara would do that job and comfortably tow a trailer while doing it. Personally I do like Xtrails, but on paper the GV wins and there is more after market 4wd accessories for them.

[shep]

i would get a outlander before a x trail. xtrails dont last on crap roads.

we bought a GV, so far it is a good thing.

[royce]

buzbox wrote:

1) No diesils in the land of Oz

grunt. Less juice.

True 4x4 enthusiast continue to sing the praises of the turbocharged diesel engine in the Grand Vitara range. The Grand Vitara Diesel delivers an impressive fuel economy of 7.0 litres per 100km^, with a common rail, Direct Diesel injection System (DDiS) Turbocharged diesel engine.

With maximum torque of 300Nm at 2,000 RPM, it provides real grunt for true 4x4 performance. The dual combination of Electronic Traction and Stability Control System work together to reduce the risk of losing vehicle control when driving on-road, while providing extra grip for any off-road adventure you choose.
Engine

1.9 litre Direct Diesel injection System (DDiS)
Fuel Consumption

7.0L/100km^ (ADR81/01 Manual)
Max Power

95kW
Torque

300Nm

[atari4x4]

buzbox, the new GV3 are a turbo diesel & I'm guessing by the talk of the carbon particulate filter issue he's referring to the new GV3 TD.

There are a few lift kits available for the GV3's & 40mm is about the limit before wheel alignment issues become present due to the lack of adjustably once lifted.

I guess you're looking at the 4 door GV3 as you're also looking at the X-trail, there are a few happy 4door GV3 owners on here, BossWoman just got a 2.4 4cyl petrol auto 4door & seems happy with it, I test drove it in Adelaide before shep drove it home to Katherine. IMO they are a very nice car that have have that soft roader appeal but actually have real 4wd capabilities, unlike all the other vehicles in that category it has low range. With a set of decent all terrain tyres, a mild lift kit I think you'd be surprised how far one would off road with some smart driving.

[Buddies72]

disco wrote:

1) Diesel. However, I have also heard (from suzuki directly i might add) that you cannot use these for short trips. that the carbon gets caught in the filter and the engine needs to heat up first. they've told me i need to do 100km in one trip at least once a week, and mostly more. this sounds bizarre to me, frankly.

does anyone know anything more about it?

I can only assume they are talking about the diesel particulate filter(DPF) which is fitted to most of the new models of common rail diesel engines. I've found out about these things the hard way having bought a mazda 6 diesel.

From what i've been able to find out about these things, they are very particular about the grade of oil that you have to use, failure to use the right grade can result in the filter clogging in a way that is not repairable without replacing it entirely and can also result in engine failure.

Basicly what the filter does is pcik out all of the carbon particles that come out the exhaust, and then completes a high temperature 'burn' at specific points in the driving cycle.

With my Mazda there is a DPF indicator light that tells me when the filter is clogged and needs to complete a burn (this is only if it hasn't been able to do so during the normal course of driving) When this happens the manual tells me to drive at speeds higher than 40km/h and higher than 2000rpm for 30 minutes - when you do this it apparently leans out the engine and completes the 'burn' cleaning the filter.

I don't know how true this is but from my own research I found that the DPF is only required for vehicles that need to comply with the latest euro emissions standards. Effectively this means that you can remove the filter in oz legally and resolve a lot of the problems that come with having them installed.

What some manufacturers have done is put some code into their engine management software that keeps track of when the last time it was plugged into their diagnostics system, meaning that if you don't take it back to them for service the DPF warning flashes (the manual says if this happens take it directly to a service centre without delay, where they charge you $120 to reset the counter - can be done with a wire shorted to earth and a few pumps on the accelerator...)

So i guess what i'm saying is it works well, but know what you're up for. if you plan on buying one of the new diesels, check out the owners manual in the dealership and read up on what that says about your filter and check out any problems they might have with other owners on forums all around the world.

I've also heard that running new common rail diesel enginesout of fuel can be terminal for the injectors and they are hard to replace and very expensive also. I've been told that the cost of replacing the injectors in my mazda for example would be more than the cost of installing a complete replacement engine.

Hope this helps.

[disco]

Hey guys, thanks so much for taking the time to reply to my thread. I just a great chat with one of the guys from the tech division in suzuki queensland who explained the diesel thing.

he basically confirmed much of what has been said, that the DPF needs to be cleaned out at stages, and the light will come on when you need to do this. drive for 30 mins it will fix itself.

importantly, he outlined the worst case scenario - what would happen if you kept doing short trips.

the filter would get clogged and it would go into failsafe mode which would make the whole thing extremely sluggish, you need need to take it do a dealer. they would need to use special equipment to clean your filter and you would need an oil change. might cost a few hundred, you aren't doing engine damage which is what the salesperson had told me

interestingly, he also told me that about the GV's they use at a sand mine, and suzuki raise them by 40mm, add better tyres, metal underplate, and lengthen breather hoses for the differential, the latter being one i hadn't heard of before. he recommended it if i was planning on crossing water of a reasonable depth.

what was also interesting was that suzuki did these modifications... i didn't know that. also they seemed pretty happy with me raising the car without voiding the entire warranty. this is very different than the fight my dad had with mistubushi when he got his 2010 model raised, lol

what did buzbox mean by 'no diesels in the land of oz' ? you can definitely get the diesel version of the GV that i'm after.

also i am 95% certain the GV will get bought over the xtrail. the xtrail seems to have so much more space in the boot, and i love the cheap crap plastic it is lined with... good for putting plastic bags filled with bait or fish on it, and smelly rods on the way back, which is what i will do a lot. i'll probably have to find a way to reline the fabric parts of the GV.

thanks again for all the help

[atari4x4]

Buzbox is referring to the earlier model Vitara's being petrol only.

[shep]

have a look here

http://newgrandvitara.net