[Marked]

has anyone ever fitted one to the car as a permanent mount?

[MacDaddy]

I see that Waeco are making power Inverters... anybody know if they are any good... as they have a good price, a 350Watt was $120 in Rays Outdoors...

Here's a link to check out Waeco Inverters -
http://www.waeco.com/za/3776.php
And Sine Wave Inverters, for sensitive electrical equipment -
http://www.waeco.com/za/3776_855.php

They claim to be up to 90% Efficient...

[TheOtherLeft]

People need to have a think why they need an inverter in the first place. Laptops, camera and other battery chargers can be powered from 12V using the correct adaptors. This is a much more efficient solution besides being a lot safer as you don't have 240vac next to you.

[squibby]

Hi, I'm looing to buy an inverter so I have somewhere to plug 230V stuff in. Does anyone know why the massive variaion in prices? Lets say a 1000w model for example. On ebay I can pick one up for $75, but in shops like jaycar and supercheap they are $200. The good quality stuff seems to be $200 so why? I've compared the specs and I can see any difference. Anyone used a cheap one off ebay?

[fordem]

There are many different ways to build an inverter - older designs are square wave output - which can cause all sorts of issues with modern electronics - newer designs have a stepped square wave (which is often called a modified sine wave to make you think you're getting something better) and others use PWM technology which provides a very close approximation to a pure sine wave.

Comparing specifications can be quite misleading and the reliability of the unit never shows in the spec - I wouldn't risk buying an inverter of unknown quality from an unknown source - once bitten, twice shy.

Within the past few years I've bought two inverters to power a 300~400w load (fluorescent lights) - one a 750w and the other a 1000w, both reputable US brands, and neither lasted more than a few months

[tonyevans]

And running fluorescent lights is the very worst thing you can do to an Inverter - In fact most have a warning not to do it.

[simobimo]

Is there a 'duty cycle' or similar rating for inverters?

Just thinking along the lines of MIG welders being miles apart in performance even though they have the same wattage.

Simo

[fordem]

tonyevans wrote:

And running fluorescent lights is the very worst thing you can do to an Inverter - In fact most have a warning not to do it.

That's interesting - I've been running fluorescents off of inverters since the mid 80's and never once heard that - got any links?

My first inverter was a square wave TrippLite, manufactured in the late 70's using bipolar transistor technology, and survived almost three decades - the company I worked with back in the 80's sold them as part of a standby lighting system, and we used fluorescents because of their efficiency.

I have no idea how many of those systems we installed, but I never saw an inverter failure - lots of battery and charger failures due to deep discharge though.

The two inverters I mentioned were a 750W Black & Decker (a relabelled Vector Electronics unit) that used a "two stage" n channel mosfet design to achieve a stepped square wave and a 1000W Xantrex with a similar design.

Incidentally the exact same load that killed the B&D & the Xantrex is currently supported by an old APC SmartUPS 750XL, and that has out lasted both the B&D & the Xantrex, and the inverter techology used is not significantly different.

[fordem]

simobimo wrote:

Is there a 'duty cycle' or similar rating for inverters?

Just thinking along the lines of MIG welders being miles apart in performance even though they have the same wattage.

Simo

ahh - I'd say similar - they will typically have a continuous load rating and a surge load rating - I mentioned a 1000W Xantrax previously, that would surge upto 1500W, and I believe that 50% "head room" is typical for current production.

Exceed the surge rating and you'll probably blow a fuse or trip a breaker, exceed the continuous rating and the unit will run for awhile before overheating and doing a thermal shutdown - most of the current production will have temperature sensing and automatic shutdown built in to them.

[fordem]

tonyevans wrote:

And running fluorescent lights is the very worst thing you can do to an Inverter - In fact most have a warning not to do it.

I just went through the Xantrex manual - there are warnings about operating "high surge" loads, such as freezers or pumps and other motor operated equipment - but fluorescent lights are not mentioned.

[fordem]

I did some "google" research and found a couple of sites that mentioned not using fluorescent lights on square wave & modified square wave inverters - curiously enough, they were all Australian sites.

The primary reason appears to be power factor correction capacitors causing excessive capacitive loading and the resulting possible overloading of the inverter - it's unlikely that that was the cause of the failure in my case ...

a - we don't use PFC capacitors in our fluorescent lights.
b - the inverters were significantly oversized - the 300~400w load mentioned would have been full load, which would have been 50% of the B&D inverter's rated capacity and 40% for the Xantrex - the average load would have been under to 250W - 33% for the B&D and 25% for the Xantrex.

[tonyevans]

Out in the bush where I, and other miners live there is no power and we have been living with Solar and generators for many years - Anyone around here that has run Floro's has ended up killing their inverters sooner or later - Most people out here use 12volt Halogen or now LED lighting as there is no power loss and it is very low in consumption - Tony

[jimbo_jones]

aldi's have a 600 watt for $59 atm

[Moag]

tonyevans wrote:

Out in the bush where I, and other miners live there is no power and we have been living with Solar and generators for many years - Anyone around here that has run Floro's has ended up killing their inverters sooner or later - Most people out here use 12volt Halogen or now LED lighting as there is no power loss and it is very low in consumption - Tony

Hey Tony have you seen these 12v CFL with E17 Edison screw fittings.
I've used them and are very efficient. "Linky Thing"

Here's a selection of the E17 Lamp holders...."Link"

LED light that uses 1watt and E17 fitting is OK for a desk lamp...."LUNA LED"

The Multilight (uses 12v CFL E17 globes) is what I use as a Camping (waterproof to 25m) light with the shade removed and is cool for attracting bait and squid at night while fishing...."Multilight (waterproof)

[fordem]

tonyevans wrote:

Out in the bush where I, and other miners live there is no power and we have been living with Solar and generators for many years - Anyone around here that has run Floro's has ended up killing their inverters sooner or later - Most people out here use 12volt Halogen or now LED lighting as there is no power loss and it is very low in consumption - Tony

If I were living in a location with no utility power I would use low voltage lighting rather than run an inverter - back in the '80's we used "self contained" 12V fluorescents where each lamp had it's own inverter, much more efficient than halogen - now that white LEDs are readily available I'd probably use those.

The reason for running an inverter in my application is because we have an unreliable utility company and an inverter system with a change-over relay allows what is effectively an automatic standby lighting system, using the existing fixtures. Battery recharge is done from the utility power - I did have 120W of PV panels at one point, but they were the property of the company, so when I quit that job, I returned them. I have also experimented with wind, but the average wind speed is too low to extract any real power.

I do have a gasolene fuelled generator, but I'd rather not start that at 1:00 am just to run 40w in security lights.

[Moag]

Just to be able to plug in stuff (240v) in your car may be convenient and cool, but I think you need to find out the alternative safer options first and
understand that a inverters that you plug into a cig plug has no earth (to ground).

So Earth Leakage Circuit breaker (ELCB) protection devices will not work.
It will Kill you just like mains power but might be more likely as there is no protection except your battery running out of juice or the size of your inverter.
So maybe read this info before you rush of and bye a inverter and expect it to run everything off it!!! "Linky Thing"

Just something to consider.

[tonyevans]

These days almost anything you are likely to want to run in a car or camping can be run from 12volt without an inverter.

Laptops - TV - Sound - Coffee/tea makers - Baby bottle warmers the list is endless even showers - but they make the seats wet

[Moag]

That's it Tony!

[royce]

an RCD should still work though and are better than an ELCB

but yeah LED and 12v everything FTW

[skyman]

So I have a industrial 110V automotive generator I am going to strap to my engine (made for this purpose). Is there a way to earth these when you setup camp, or a job site?

I haven't looked into the install details yet, just thought i would ask if it is possible.

[royce]

earth stake same as a house would be.

I dont think earths are a realy useful method of stopping people getting zapped anymore, I take it you would have rcd's over there, unit that measures current in both active and neutral and if there is an imbalance (cause some is running through some poor bloke) its shuts the supply off?

BTW, how do you go with getting the RPM consistent to keep the hz correct?

[skyman]

I am not sure, it is a generator with a big ass control box that has a analog meter (like a volt meter looking gauge) & two 3 prong AC (110) outlets. Over here the third prong is for the earth leakage. My friend who is a mechanic who also worked at an auto leckky shop was going to install it in his box van for power, but realized because mates rates, and favors it would cost more than it was worth. He rebuilt it with new bearings,windings brushes etc. and it has not seen service since.


We have what we call a GFI ground fault interrupt breaker. (I think same thing as RCD?) when you operate say a wet Skillsaw standing in the mud and water, the thingy on the breaker trips and you have to go back and flip it to go back to work.

One of my old bosses took out the GFI breaker because reseting it was taking too much time away form work. One pull on the trigger of the Skillsaw and he was right back in that box installing the GFI breaker again

They also have some GFI trips on the outlets themselves, but only for bathrooms, and outdoor sockets.i wonder if I could tetro fitone into this generator. I will really have to look into before i install it. No crispy fryed sky-kids for me please.

[justin.w]

As people have said, an inverter that isnt a "pure sinewave" it can wreck sensitive electronic devices like laptops.

[fordem]

justin.w wrote:

As people have said, an inverter that isnt a "pure sinewave" it can wreck sensitive electronic devices like laptops.

Now THAT is pure bull - go take a look at the input spec on your laptop adapter, it probably says something like 90~270VAC, 50/60Hz - notice that wide range of acceptable input voltage?

Laptop power adapters are among the most robust power supplies in the computer industry, and you can pretty much plug them into the nearest outlet with no regard for what's coming out of it - if it meets any one of the world's accepted mains power standards, it'll work just fine.

Would you hesitate to plug your laptop into any one of the commercially available battery backup systems on the market? Guess what you're plugging it into ...

[Marked]

I have bought a inverter from Alltronics..just to power my laptop across Nullabor.
I plugged it in and plugged laptop in and it worked..
Then I notice it asks you to earth it. Is that necessary when it is plugged into cigarette socket?
If so, does the GV Zook weird ass positive power issue affect where it should be earthed too?

Excuse my noobiness, but just a question, why couldnt you run a small fridge off on those those? would it flatten the battery?
cheers

[youda]

alot of laptops are 17.5 to 19volt so an inverter is a good joice. a $70 inverter is usually evought to charge the battery but not run the laptop. (has the power not the amperage) . There are laptop car kits but they normally cost nearly $100.

[Che]

I kept my laptop, hard drive, a couple of camera batteries and phone charged for two weeks when I crossed from east to west using a ~200W pure sine wave inverter - I even had a 4-point powerboard! It was a Jaycar ciggy socket inverter, and yeah, it had an extra earth cable (for the AC's earth i'm guessing).

For some reason I found it hard to get a proper charge into the batteries of all these things - ie - the camera battery recharger would indicate the batteries were fully charged, but 10 pics later it would be flat again (as opposed to the 100 pics I could take off a wall charge). Kinda annoying, as I missed so many good pic opportunities.

No biggie, just pointing it out. No way would I have run anything else but a pure sine wave inverter though.

[Che]

Marked wrote:

has anyone ever fitted one to the car as a permanent mount?

Mine was hard mounted for a while, but I took it out a few weeks back as I realised until I have a bunch of spare time to run amok i'm only likely to use it once a year