[Gwagensteve]

I can swap springs in about 20 minutes. As per royce's comments changing spring height isn't going to compensate for load - more load needs more spring rate.

If you genuinely carry 700kg of payload it's time to change car. You're at least 300kg over GV for a sierra.

Steve.

[shep]

Gwagensteve wrote:

I can swap springs in about 20 minutes. As per royce's comments changing spring height isn't going to compensate for load - more load needs more spring rate.

If you genuinely carry 700kg of payload it's time to change car. You're at least 300kg over GV for a sierra.

Steve.

yeah i know, however i like my sierra.

there is 260kg just in fluids for the car. not counting fluids for me.

[dano_mung]

Love the shackle angle on the rear...

[shep]

dano_mung wrote:

Love the shackle angle on the rear...

all the weight was on the drivers side spring as i broke the chassis on the passenger side.

[Fatzook]

Put ya spare on the bonnet. That should help with weight distribution.

And nice long range fuel tank

[31zook]

and the hose in the tank?

i will be double 4-linking my lwb when i get some time, but what steve is saying about radius arms is sounding about right for your dusty overloaded trips...

[shep]

31zook wrote:

the and the hose in tank?

i will be double 4-linking my lwb when i get some time, but what steve is saying about radius arms is sounding about right for your dusty overloaded trips...

easiest way to get fuel from a jerry can into the tank

[steve]

I used pajero rear radius arms. Front and rear on the sierra, with a panhard. With all the bolts in it didn't flex, because how can it? you have gripped the diff housing on both sides, it'll only flex as much as the bushes allow. If you remove one end bolt from one side of the diff it flexed really well because you relased it's grip and made floppy links now. It worked like that very well.
I did two rockcrawling comps like that on 32s and got 2nd and 3rd against Mick from Superior Engineerings Floppy Patrol on 37s.
It was not used on road though. The only reason i changed that was because the diff housings copped a flogging on the rocks and i wanted bigger tyres and bigger stronger diffs. I now have A frame front and rear with hilux diffs. stupid flex but the rear is bit wrong with bad pinion angle on extreme flex, but that's ok, it still goes ok for what i do.

[shep]

thanks steve. would ya have a pic of how it flexed with all the bolts in?

what about a X link or are they like drop shackles.

[steve]

i'll look for some, but it'd be the same as a coily sierra as that's the same system, that's why they tear brackets off the diff housing, the twisting strain.

I have seen the x link, looks ok? basicly removing the end bolts and linking each side together?

[shep]

this is what i can get form the dump

gen 2 paj. these are the longest arms i was able to measure



80 series. around 50mm shorter then paj but with a different chassis mount



some sort of SWB patrol/maverick thing. around 200mm shorter then a paj but with the same type of chassis mount



4 link from a grey import pathfinder


grey import surf


there are also arms from 70 series toyota's and GU wagons however i couldn't flip them over with my sierra

[steve]

If you grab the hole diff, and cut the diff off each side of the mount and then weld the half circle of the remaining diff around your diff, so it still has the standard mount, might save some work making new mounts.

[Gwagensteve]

My pick of those would be the pajero arms, mounted upside down. With the pin at the chassis end, you'll have plenty of travel if you later convert to three link.

PS pathy's were 5 link rear - there's a panhard not evident in the photo. Quite a good design too.

Patrols can't flex their front end with 3 tonnes of pootrol on them - a sierra, even as heavy as yours, won't stand a chance.

Steve.

[SierraDan]

Coiled pajs flex good too.

[monley]

What about something really simple like the jimny 3-link, just with longer arms?

[shakes]

monkey wrote:

What about something really simple like the jimny 3-link, just with longer arms?

Sounds good, but by the time you sit down and take the time to measure it all, work out what how it's going to behave. Find the mounting points etc it's not soo simple.

There was a couple of really good threads on pirate4x4 shep but for some reason I cant find them. One had a simple write up of each setup, and how it generally behaved.

Wil search some more tomorrow.

[monley]

shakes wrote:

monkey wrote:

What about something really simple like the jimny 3-link, just with longer arms?

Sounds good, but by the time you sit down and take the time to measure it all, work out what how it's going to behave. Find the mounting points etc it's not soo simple.

There was a couple of really good threads on pirate4x4 shep but for some reason I cant find them. One had a simple write up of each setup, and how it generally behaved.

Wil search some more tomorrow.

But easier than doing a 4-link setup from my under standing

[royce]

I cant believe either of you havent figured the whole tone of this thread was to do jsut that and Steve even chimed in with why he didnt like it too much and Shep even put up pics of potential arms

[Gwagensteve]

monkey wrote:

What about something really simple like the jimny 3-link, just with longer arms?

Er, that's exactly what a range rover front or pajero rear is - have a good look at the photos Shep has posted - they're all exactly the same in configuration as a Jimny.

None of the jmny parts are worth a pinch of poo. The panhards break, the shocks are too short, and the arms bend.

[monley]

Gwagensteve wrote:

monkey wrote:

What about something really simple like the jimny 3-link, just with longer arms?

Er, that's exactly what a range rover front or pajero rear is - have a good look at the photos Shep has posted - they're all exactly the same in configuration as a Jimny.

None of the jmny parts are worth a pinch of poo. The panhards break, the shocks are too short, and the arms bend.

I'm a bit slow today


I agree that the stock panhards are shit, that why i have the TD ones, and the arms are piss weak, i think i have twisted and bent one of mine yesterday. And shock been to short are you referring to stock shocks or after market?

[Gwagensteve]

Does it matter?

A jimny is designed for 6"/5" of travel. Aftermarket shocks for a jimny might add a couple of inches to that, but why lock yourself into a jimny part# (stock of aftermarket) when you are making all the mounts from scratch?

I'm generally a big fan of OME N76 shocks, but with the "new" radius arm setup were working on now, it looks like Bilstein 5100 shocks might be a better choice. (6, 8, 10, 12 14" travel)

Steve.

[Gwagensteve]

[shep]

i am going to look a bit closer at a paj rear end as this is more then enough flex for me.
dunno about the front as yet.

[Gwagensteve]

hehehe - don't get excited - that's a trick photo. I have one radius arm bolt pulled because we were measuring clearances for when it goes three link, (when it will have that much travel) and shock clearances for Michael's trolley tug. In this photo the rearmost driver's side bolt has been pulled on the axle.

You can experiment, but generally, handling will go to poo if you drive the car with one bolt pulled. It used to be common for Rangie owners to pull one front bolt to free the front up off road. Makes them pretty wobbly on road though.

This is how much travel my car has with all the bolts in. It was unladen in this photo though.



and on the same day in the same spot with one bolt pulled:



Note how the front end has unloaded once the bolt has been pulled. It's not a good solution for balanced behaviour with a leaf front end ebcause of the huge difference in roll stiffness front to rear it creates. That's why I'm not going to three link the rear of mine until I coil the front.

Steve.

[shep]

i am back to looking at this. i have settled on paj rear arms for the rear of the sierra.

now what about the front? would be best if i can use factory parts.

[Gwagensteve]

Check my build thread - it's exactly what I am working on now, and it's even more relevant as I'm converting to AW-4 at the same time.

Should have the gearbox crossmember complete today, which is the critical bit.

Steve.

[shep]

cool. i am using a crossmember from a kit. i need to use either kits or factory parts
as then i can hopefully avoid needing a engineer to sign off on the mods.

[Gwagensteve]

shep wrote:

cool. i am using a crossmember from a kit. i need to use either kits or factory parts
as then i can hopefully avoid needing a engineer to sign off on the mods.

I don't believe it's achievable under those circumstances. Sooner or later you will have to weld something to the chassis so an engineer will need to be involved if you need it legal. I'd get the engineer involved now and know you can drive down the road without sweating you are going to get pulled over.

Even something like the trail slayer kit requires chassis and axle welding=engineering required, and just because it's a kit doesn't mean an engineer will accept it. There are good kits and bad kits.

I'm using stock links, stock coil towers, and a stock pan hard, but hanging it all together will require custom chassis work - it's unavoidable.


Steve.

[shep]

There is nO engineer to get involved. We do a submission to a commitee made up of car enthusiasts and they decide what the next steP is. If they like it then ya get the go ahead.

Welding on the chassIs is unavoidable however if I can use factory suspension bits then it will look a lot better on paper.

[sogone]

TAC board for the win!