[Moph]

Ben_Sierra wrote:

Next week it'll be:

My $100 winch burnt out on the first recovery WTF??!??!?!

Could very well be. But if it gets him to safety, that's all it needs do for $100. I got my bro-in-law's Patrol out of a sticky situation at Powerlines last winter with one of those electric boat winches you buy at Repco. Stuffed the winch (twisted the cable up) but got the nose of the Patrol pointing back uphill again. Was an interesting recovery with the winch; not sure how we would have managed without it.

[sleeperzook]

Moph wrote:

Stuffed the winch (twisted the cable up) but got the nose of the Patrol pointing back uphill again. Was an interesting recovery with the winch; not sure how we would have managed without it.

Each to there own when it comes to selection of a winch. Only you can decide how often and hard you'll push the winch and ultimately how much to can afford.

I would say ensuring the cable can do what your asking is as, if not more, important as the winch rating. Ultimately if the motor gives up, your stuck, if the cable snaps.... that could kill someone.

I'm not knocking anyone, just hopefully passing on some info that could be useful. From what Moph said above I'd say you didn't twist the cable, you stretched it and maybe got a bit lucky. There are 2 type of cables, and they differ in the way they are constructed. If you look at and end on view you'll notice the main cable is made of a number of smaller cables. The cheapest (winch style) is wound all in the same direction and hence will tend to rotate as load increases. The other has the sub cable twisted in the opposite direction to the overall cable, this is used by cranes to stop big loads from swinging when lifted, but is expensive. From my experience with cranes, using rated flexible steel wire rope, you can calculate a working rating (kgs) by squaring the diameter in mm and multiplying this by 8.

From example, a 10 mm rope is-
10mm*10=100
100*8=800kg

Of coarse this is a safe working load and the actual breaking strain could be maybe 5 times this dependent on manufacturer.

My point is a cheap winch rated for 1300kg SWL may snap at say 5 tonne, a figure easily achievable when pulling a 2.5/3tone 4wd from a bog using a double line pull via snatch block. Used just for a zook, it would probably get you out of trouble.

End of the day no one wants a fun day out in their rig to end with someone losing a leg or catching a bow shackle with their mellon.

My 2c

[Fatzook]

IMO best size for a light duty zook ( non-comp) 6000lb.

Best size for a medium duty zook ( some comp work) 8000lb,

and for a heavy duty zook ( full comp rig) 9500lb +

My 2 cents.

[royce]

Ben_Sierra wrote:

Grave dig much

yeah like everyone said, fuck off at least he used a relevant topic, not like asking for trailer wiring when the last thread was 2 weeks before

[Moph]

sleeperzook wrote:

...lots of reasonable stuff...

Nope was definitely twisted. The boat winches have a habit of not spooling back on neatly and it all got jammed up inside - had to pull it apart to clear it later and decided to throw it once I saw the condition of the cable.

You're dead right (pardon the pun) re winch safety - but I was 10m to the side of the winch with only 9m of cable out, and everyone else was back behind me.

Not the ideal tool for the job, no. But safe enough with some thought and better than any other option bar a full sized winch or hand winch.

[foonji]

Another one for safety...

You and by-standers should be at least 1.5x the length of the cable away and once it's connected even without strain it should be considered a 'live wire'.

[Ben_Sierra]

royce wrote:

Ben_Sierra wrote:

Grave dig much

yeah like everyone said, fuck off at least he used a relevant topic, not like asking for trailer wiring when the last thread was 2 weeks before

Ouch, obviously touched a nerve there

[SuziBlu]

sleeperzook wrote:

Moph wrote:

Stuffed the winch (twisted the cable up) but got the nose of the Patrol pointing back uphill again. Was an interesting recovery with the winch; not sure how we would have managed without it.

Each to there own when it comes to selection of a winch. Only you can decide how often and hard you'll push the winch and ultimately how much to can afford.

I would say ensuring the cable can do what your asking is as, if not more, important as the winch rating. Ultimately if the motor gives up, your stuck, if the cable snaps.... that could kill someone.

I'm not knocking anyone, just hopefully passing on some info that could be useful. From what Moph said above I'd say you didn't twist the cable, you stretched it and maybe got a bit lucky. There are 2 type of cables, and they differ in the way they are constructed. If you look at and end on view you'll notice the main cable is made of a number of smaller cables. The cheapest (winch style) is wound all in the same direction and hence will tend to rotate as load increases. The other has the sub cable twisted in the opposite direction to the overall cable, this is used by cranes to stop big loads from swinging when lifted, but is expensive. From my experience with cranes, using rated flexible steel wire rope, you can calculate a working rating (kgs) by squaring the diameter in mm and multiplying this by 8.

From example, a 10 mm rope is-
10mm*10=100
100*8=800kg

Of coarse this is a safe working load and the actual breaking strain could be maybe 5 times this dependent on manufacturer.

My point is a cheap winch rated for 1300kg SWL may snap at say 5 tonne, a figure easily achievable when pulling a 2.5/3tone 4wd from a bog using a double line pull via snatch block. Used just for a zook, it would probably get you out of trouble.

End of the day no one wants a fun day out in their rig to end with someone losing a leg or catching a bow shackle with their mellon.

My 2c

Use Dyneema, stronger than general use wire rope, dia x dia (6x19), at destruction, elongation is ~3%, this means when it breaks, it will simply drop, unlike wire rope that can and will whiplash, and it floats. Always use tested shackles, easily identified as they have ratings stamped on them, are painted, and the pin is the largest diameter.

[sleeperzook]

Moph wrote:

sleeperzook wrote:

...lots of reasonable stuff...

Nope was definitely twisted. The boat winches have a habit of not spooling back on neatly and it all got jammed up inside - had to pull it apart to clear it later and decided to throw it once I saw the condition of the cable.

You're dead right (pardon the pun) re winch safety - but I was 10m to the side of the winch with only 9m of cable out, and everyone else was back behind me.

Not the ideal tool for the job, no. But safe enough with some thought and better than any other option bar a full sized winch or hand winch.

Yeah as I mentioned I wasn't knocking you mate, cos I'd have done the same thing. Murphy says it's rarely that you'll have the perfect scenario and tools to deal with it!! I was just highlighting the importance of factoring the cable capacity in addition to the fancy number on the side of the winch.

The rope suziblue mentioned it great for safety and weight, only real issue is its more susceptible to moisture and dirt ingress, which will erode the rope, but hey, if it breaks every one goes home in one piece Plasma ropes are my choice, as a 20-30kg saving on the front bar of a SWB zook makes a decent difference. The choice is full of trade offs, weight, strength and reliability vs price.

[joeblow]

sleeperzook wrote:

The rope suziblue mentioned it great for safety

tell that to many people i have seen who have had thier toy cables snap half way up a hill climb only to have thier vehicle slide uncontrolably back down the hill.

[SuziBlu]

Toy cables, Joe, seriously, wanna talk serious, coz u aint talkin but shit.

Tell me why its useless.

It is the single most strongest fibre known to mankind, without contestation.

Prove me wrong.

[joeblow]

SuziBlu wrote:

Toy cables, Joe, seriously, wanna talk serious, coz u aint talkin but shit.

Tell me why its useless.

It is the single most strongest fibre known to mankind, without contestation.

Prove me wrong.

maybe in space where there are no contaminants to degrade the fibre........and if there was a rock comming for ya in space you would be screwed anyway.

on paper it may be the strongest and safest.....but thats on paper.....oh.....and space.

[esky]

isnt spiderweb the strongest?

anyway, it mat be strongest in tension but it has relatively low abrasion properties

[SuziBlu]

joeblow wrote:

SuziBlu wrote:

Toy cables, Joe, seriously, wanna talk serious, coz u aint talkin but shit.

Tell me why its useless.

It is the single most strongest fibre known to mankind, without contestation.

Prove me wrong.

maybe in space where there are no contaminants to degrade the fibre........and if there was a rock comming for ya in space you would be screwed anyway.

on paper it may be the strongest and safest.....but thats on paper.....oh.....and space.

Most excellent argument you have mounted there Joe.

Just goes to prove my thoughts, you know sweet bugger all about ropes/fibres.

Dyneema (spiderwire) has excellent abrasive properties, about the very best of all the synthetic fibres.

Wire is better, yes, but then it too can be made unreliable, how many here who use wire know how to inspect it for soundness.

Dyneema is used in the marine environment because of its incredible strength and also its resistance to abrasion and contaminants, not because its in space. Trawlers love the stuff, and it is constantly bombarded with sand, crushed coral, salt, fish slime, what else is there that is destructive, I don't know except for chemicals, but then its very resistant to chemical attack too.

Try cutting the stuff, this will tell even blind freddy that it is a very tough fibre, as it will blunt-ten your knife very quickly.

[oozuk]

I know that the warn 8274 hi-mount is the beeall endall blah blah,
But I'm not keen on cutting up the front of my car to fit one plus I've got a dirty grate big frontmount cooler in the way.

So my question is, has anybody mate a low-mount winch that is geared up to perform like a hi-mount and be competitive yet still fit in a Sierra ARB bar ?

[shakes]

joeblow wrote:

SuziBlu wrote:

Toy cables, Joe, seriously, wanna talk serious, coz u aint talkin but shit.

Tell me why its useless.

It is the single most strongest fibre known to mankind, without contestation.

Prove me wrong.

maybe in space where there are no contaminants to degrade the fibre........and if there was a rock comming for ya in space you would be screwed anyway.

on paper it may be the strongest and safest.....but thats on paper.....oh.....and space.

I'm a pretty big fence sitter on this one. rope tends to break a hell of alot more than cable (i've seen 5 ropes break vs 1 cable all with similar usage etc) leading to the falling back down a hill that joe mentioned.

Rope is also wayyyy lighter meaning heaps easier/safer to drag up a big dirty slippery hill.

but when wire lets go, it goes with an almighty TWANG! that can do some serious damage to anyone or anything that is standing close by. there was a thread with some good pic's a couple of years ago on outers

[SuziBlu]

Something breaking is not necessarily the fault of the product, more than likely, ill sized, or past its use by date. Always inspect anything that has great reliability placed upon it.

The thickest wire will break easily when mismatched.

It is by far the best product for the job.

[dank]

oozuk wrote:

I know that the warn 8274 hi-mount is the beeall endall blah blah,
But I'm not keen on cutting up the front of my car to fit one plus I've got a dirty grate big frontmount cooler in the way.

So my question is, has anybody mate a low-mount winch that is geared up to perform like a hi-mount and be competitive yet still fit in a Sierra ARB bar ?

My low mount is fast, but you'll be hard pressed to find the gears to do another one like mine. I've got genuine warn 115:1 planetary gears in a Warn Magnum 9000 housing. Also bolted on a 6hp motor. It's fast...but I wouldn't say it's as fast as a high mount and there's no real freespool. Benefit is fast line retrieval though, and winch and drive is nice.

If you have a xd9000 or magnum 9000 there is a possibility that you can bolt on a HS9500 gearbox that goes on the motor end which increases the shaft speed before it hits the planetary gearset. This would make it too long though to fit in your arb bar. I know I've done the measurements.

The tigerz11 10000lb comp winch is the fastest off the shelf low mount under load but is about 600mm long, too long to fit into an arb bar. Next best is the 9000lb at 580mm long and it will probably fit as I can fit my magnum 9000 lb in my arb bar when I had it.

tigerz11 9000lb two speed winch specs:


The two speed winch is pretty cool. It has a cutout of 3000lb on the fast speed so in some cases you could use it for a light pull and drive otherwise the normal speed is fine and comparable to a fast low mount.

Here's some video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1prQJHg ... r_embedded

[joeblow]

dank wrote:

If you have a xd9000 or magnum 9000 there is a possibility that you can bolt on a HS9500 gearbox that goes on the motor end which increases the shaft speed before it hits the planetary gearset. This would make it too long though to fit in your arb bar. I know I've done the measurements.

thats funny.....my HS9.5 fits a treat.



the high mount is n ot the beez knees. it is very slow under load unless you do some serious hot rodding. most low mounts these days are much faster than a high mount under heavy load.

[dank]

joeblow wrote:

thats funny.....my HS9.5 fits a treat.

the high mount is n ot the beez knees. it is very slow under load unless you do some serious hot rodding. most low mounts these days are much faster than a high mount under heavy load.

yeah i did measurements with a 6hp motor not sure what ur running Joe.

Maybe I did the measurements wrong!

[joeblow]

nah....i think some have that alloy heat sink and some dont. that accounts for about 20mm difference.

[royce]

youve gotta be a bit of a meathead to break a synthetic rope I reckon, yeah you gotta be careful but its not hard to deal with and not having something that would like to whip around and kill you is a bonus

for seriously fast low mounts talk to Russell Mason at ARB Rocky, it wont fit into a standard bar but it will be better than a high mount