[barbender]

Sierra Engine swap, I'm not interested in a EFI engine swap, what other non efi engine swaps have been performed with a relative amount of ease, I do recall very early LJ's had Corolla conversions, something along these lines with a minimum 1500cc would be of interest for me to research further. The conversion could be just engine or engine and gearbox, I know a lot of people are going to recommend an EFI conversion but that is not going to happen. All info will be a good starting point.

[Marko_SJ]

Why not a G16A from an early Vit? Use BenT wedge and away you go AFAIK.

Finding a decent one might be hard though.

[rustyzook]

Marko_SJ wrote:

Why not a G16A from an early Vit? Use BenT wedge and away you go AFAIK.

Finding a decent one might be hard though.

That would be the only one that would be worth it in my books, from memory the filter hits the bonnet, but it's an easy fix.

Any reason your so against EFI?

[barbender]

Not interested in the EFI due to computer, I know it looks simple enough but give me a spanner a bit of fencing wire and a screwdriver and I can usually get standard not computerized vehicle going again.

[rustyzook]

Fair enough, G16a is the one then. I'm no efi genius, I've never had any issues with the G16b in mine, there are not that hard to deal with when something plays up.

[Gwagensteve]

There's a rich irony that the next thread on this page is "carby problems"

G16A.

If you want reliability, a newer engine with more power and torque, and diagnostics you know what the answer is.

I'd much rather troubleshoot EFI than a carby.

[pete_79]

Irony indeed.....

Just had to explain the advantages of diagnostics to the misses last night after she asked why i kept saying a G16 swap is such a good thing..

[barbender]

I'll get the reliability with the older engine when I rebuild it from the sump plug up, more power and torque reliably achievable with a small amount of work which I can do myself, "electronic diagnostics" I have enough trouble turning my computer on. So it looks like all I have to do now is find a G16A, what year Vitaras were they fitted to. Also as per my original post are there any other engine swaps historically performed for Sierras. Thanks for the replies so far,I appreciate it.

[Gwagensteve]

Loads. Pretty much any motor you can imagine has been put in a sierra. Doesn't make them a good swap.

G16A is the only feasible carby option.

88-94 vitara. They're getting hard to find because they've cracked or worn out by now.

They're my least favourite Suzuki motor. Lazy and not as nice to drive as a g13.

[MrRocky]

Personally id rather rebuild the 1.3 with high comp pistons, cam and a new carb than stuff around with a g16a with less rev range and pretty much the same hp the g16a would be at the bottom of my list of suzuki engines to use in n/a carby form.

[Gwagensteve]

Barbender, this really seems like an incredibly expensive and complicated way of avoiding something easy. There is many times the information and support for an efi conversion than there is for correctly and reliably rebuilding a g16A. They're largely disposable motors. So whilst you might spend a lot of money rebuilding a g16a, when it fails you'll be back to spending loads of money on rebuilding another one.

The "pain" of an EFI conversion is only done once. After hat you can stab almost free g16b's in the car pulled from balenos that are years fresher than even the best g16A.

Everyone who has done an efi conversion didn't think they could do it or knew enough about computers to manage it. Experience has proven it's not very hard at all and people like MrRocky can potentially provide you with a loom marked for what connects where, so if you can wire a driving light, you can do an efi swap.

[Marko_SJ]

Not seeing why people want to poopoo on this idea so much. I think carbs (and mechanically injected diesels too, for that matter) still have a place, if that's what people want. I bet once Pete changes his fuel pump he will have a sierra with great day to day driveability, good starting, for much less than a G16B swap (nothing except for consumables, which have been neglected by previous owner, really). My 1.3 was almost impossible to stall, never shook, bunny hopped or bogged, started great and moved the sierra just fine (Will admit it wasnt the easiest to start on hills, though, and could have done with more torque in deep mud). All I did was follow Shep's advice about stripping the Aisin down neater, and followed instructions online for setting the mixture screw to a better setting. I also got ride of the auto choke too, because the spring had failed and I could not source a new one as easy as removing it.

That's coming from someone who loves his scangauge.

[MrRocky]

Ive had a few g16a sierras and pushing into the breeze on larger tyres (31"+) even with 6.5 reduction gears they quite simply lack the torque and power of the efi swap. You can spend all your money on a rebuilt carb motor with all the hp mods and still get flogged by a 300,000 km cheapie g16b. Not to mention the fact you can pick up a low km trouble free motor australia wide, as mentioned the same cant be said for g13/16a motors due to there age

[Gwagensteve]

Mechanical pump diesels are awesome. Because they're injected. Doesn't mean the pump isn't an enormously complex thing you don't pull apart trackside.

Efi motors of circa 20 years of age are super easy to diagnose and repair.

[bumstein]

here ya go get on it

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=54342

[rustyzook]

is it possible that a set of reduction gears might be a better option that a g16a? What's the end result your chasing?

[barbender]

The end result basically is a little more power and torque with as little effort as possible, I don't consider an engine rebuild to be effort more of a hobby, however, I haven't considered EFI engines due to computer control..Yes they are supposed to be reliable and usually more output, G16A to G16B comparison, I am really more comfortable with the older style engines I grew up with an know I can deal with if there are any issues, a lot of replies have been helpful but still insist EFI is the way to go. I have taken it all on board but have yet to seriously consider EFI engines, at this stage I am still researching. If I rebuild a G16A, it is no more or less cost really than the 1.3 Sierra, I would go down the same track, some port work, extractors, slightly higher comp pistons, very mild cam work to suit application, 1 3/4 - 2" exhaust, work I am familiar with and have applied to many cars and motorcycles over the last 48 years. I do not intend to use this vehicle for extreme off road work, I have other vehicles for that.

[shep]

I put a 8v carby G16 in the hardtop I painted with glow paint and was very happy with how it worked.

[rustyzook]

shep wrote:

I put a 8v carby G16 in the hardtop I painted with glow paint and was very happy with how it worked.

Haha I remember that thing,

Cal zook has a g16a in his and it works well.

I wouldn't bother rebuilding one tho, if it fails chuck it out and buy another, they are pretty cheap and not worth the time stuffing around.

[barbender]

OK, what Suzuki vehicles in Aus had the G16a fitted so I know what to look for.

[Gwagensteve]

SWB Vitara, 88-94.

[fordem]

Did Australia get the SF416 Swifts? We had them with a carbed 16v G16a in them - same time frame 89~94 or thereabouts.

[Gwagensteve]

Yes we did but I don't think they are a good swap candidate - distributor would need converting to a right angle drive which is far from straightforward, the carb and manifold is unique (I think some of ours were TBI) as is water piping. All of the hassle of a coil pack baleno swap without the advantage of EFI.

I know I keep banging on about this, but I genuinely believe pursing a G16A is the worst of the available options. They're the least common G16, they crack blocks, and they don't drive that well. I don't believe for a regular road/light use car there's any point in opening one to make it better, they seems to have a short life once this is done and then you're back to looking for another engine that's hard to find.

I guess converting a G16B to carby is an option if you're perverse. Jonno-Racing has done this and his car works well from experience. Generally though, as expected, it requires an amount of tinkering and the conversion (to swap to a right angle drive/G13 based distributor) was a bit of a hassle, as was sorting out the coolant flow. No question it runs well.

In contrast, I put a 265K old EFI G16B in my car six years ago. It's a bit smoky, uses a bit of coolant, runs on fuel so bad i can't run my lawnmower on it, and I pretty much open the bonnet only to wash it. It starts first hit of the key after sitting for months. Ive never had it put the check engine light on so I've never had to do any diagnostics. The weirdest thing it dies is surge a little when cold and under light load, which means the IAC valve probably needs a clean, which I haven't been bothered to do. If I break it I'll swap a new long motor in from a Baleno, I won't have to touch the wiring, just plug and play after swapping the cam.

[sideways]

I typed this days ago but I didn't want the arguments but hey, what the heck.

The corolla swap from back in the day the day was the 4K engine, it's 1.3l and about the same power as a G13. They do have a bigger brother, the 1.8L 7k but I think we only got them in forklifts here in Australia? The K series engines are not a simple conversion and I don't see the point of doing one. On the plus side, there's a pretty good aftermarket following for them and plenty of them have been tuned up to the max.

G16As are pretty much extinct these days. If you can't find one you could build one quite cheaply using a G16b bottom end and a G13 head. A dizzy baleno engine would be ideal for this as they're useless for conversions so worthless.

I've looked pretty extensively into carby engine conversions for Sierras. The problem is everything is either extremely old and gutless in standard form (4K, A14 ect), significantly heavier than a Suzuki engine (4A-G, Datsun L series, CA18/CA20) or from a FWD car with the dizzy out the back of the head and no gearbox options. Gearboxes are one of the big problems here, all these motors need their respective rear wheel drive gearbox which can either be to long (dastun/nissan engines, need the rare stumpy box) extremely rare and expensive (4A-GE) or not even exist.

You could use a Vitara gearbox adapted to a Toyota engine, many Toyotas used the same gearbox so if you could source a bellhousing then it could be made to fit, but you'd need to see if input shafts are the same, if a sump is a available to fit and ugh, to much wizardry and find oddball parts in that one.

Actually the most viable motors I found were old Euro ones. Europe adopted alloy blocks and so on a long time before Japan so there's some really light, relatively powerful motors out there with short gear boxes but where do you even start when you're looking for a 30+ year old oddball engine that they sold bugger all of here anyway and do you want to have to find parts for it? What happens if you blow it up and it takes you 2 years to find another one?

IMO it always comes right back to Suzuki engines. I have driven a G16a and I agree it was pretty meh but it was in a particularly poor state of tune and there's no denying it was more powerful than the 1.3l. If you wanted to get really keen then you could do something like Jonnos G16B. He has converted to twin carbs and a 1.3l sierra dizzy. You can find a TBI manifold to run a more conventional carby but that's a pretty rare item. That said, there's good aftermarket support for 8V G heads too, you could make a lot more than the standard 80hp. One fellow on here made almost that at the wheels with a quad carb G13 (unopened motor, stock cam, compression ect).

I agree the G16b EFI conversion is simpler and more trouble free than a lot of people give it credit for but you specifically said no EFI so I wont berate you over it.

[Gwagensteve]

I guess one point with noting that that putting a G13 head on a G16B bottom end will result in an interference motor, and it ends up a roughly 8.9:1 CR motor with smaller valves than a G16A, so whilst torque might be OK, my understanding is this combination makes no more power than a G13 because it's strangled by the valves so it won't rev.

Seems like a waste of two decent motors. Surely it would be preferable to put a carby of some description on a G16B (or hell, even a G13BB or G13B) without opening the motors, which they don't seem to like.

[rustyzook]

Like Steves, my g16b was a high km motor, was put in 8 years and 3 owners ago no CEL no speed sensor, it's weeps a bit of coolant from a hairline crack in the block (been doing that for almost 3 years now) uses a touch of oil, it starts and runs fine, I have no idea about EFI and I haven't needed to in the time I've owned it.

The wife has a G16a vitara (no rego anymore), it moved along nicely but it was a dog of an engine when it wanted to be. Could never decide if it wanted to run ok or just be a prick.

My g16b would have close to 400,000km on it now and I don't look after it at all! It's been more reliable than my old 2.4l diesel craplux.

Anyway how are you going sourcing a new engine? Any ideas yet? Are there somethings you can try with the 1.3 first? I remember years ago there was a Webber carb conversion that was all the craze, that might be something to look at.

[MrRocky]

What about using a carry/early jimny g13bb bottom end with 1.3 head
You could probably find one with low enough kms and 1.3 bits will bolt on.
Gti bottom end with 8v would probably mean 98 octane forever but give the most go

[fordem]

You might need to be careful with the Carry - I'm not certain where the differences are, but those motors lay on the side, so there are going to be a bunch of them, also, I don't see a reason to put a GTi bottom end under an 8v head - not unless you're planning a high compression, high rpm build - the blocks are pretty much identical, the crank rods & pistons are different, and there are a few nice bits like the bearing stiffeners - presumably you're going to change the pistons & rods (if you don't you risking piston~valve contact) and at that point, all you have left is the forged crank.

[Gwagensteve]

Carry runs the same block and head, it has whacky manifolds and a very odd sump adapter wedge thingy that corrects the oil pickup for the lean.

[vet 180]

barbender wrote:

Not interested in the EFI due to computer, I know it looks simple enough but give me a spanner a bit of fencing wire and a screwdriver and I can usually get standard not computerized vehicle going again.

I hear this excuse all the time, but don't agree with it.

I have owned carby and efi from different offroad cars. It is true you can often get a carby running again, but a carby vehicle will break down far more often, be a pig on hills, annoying as hell when you need part throttle and the parts are generally harder to source.

Youstatement may be true for the more modern efi systems where canbus is involved and different computers have to talk to each other, but the g16b ecu is a very simple thing that you should never have to deal will. And even if you do using a smart phone is more difficult. There will be many parts that will need to be replaced on your 4x4, but the chances of it being a computer is very very small. However if you stick to your guns with the carby the chanceof a carby rebuild or having to source a rare old mechanic fuel pump will be very high.

As far as diagnostics for a simple efi vs carby, well the process is the same. In fact the efi on a g16b is a simpler system than carby and electronic dizzy.

I would reconsider your anti computer bias for this particular project. In fact it's probably the perfect project to play with as the computer it 20+ years old now, very simple and there are plenty of people on this forum to help you should you run into trouble.

If your worried about being left stranded and not being able to get home an efi can be limped home and run like a bag when sometime is wrong just as easy as a carby