[Gwagensteve]

Captain Sensible, what on earth makes you think a vitara won't go where a leaf sprung landcruiser will go?

A vitara, with some modifications that make little or no difference to it's on road behaviour, will have no problem embarrassing a leaf spring cruiser offroad. Happens all the time.

An auto vitara on 30's with a locker in the rear will spank an old school 'cruiser in the bush.

Steve.

[Captain_Sensible]

Steve, nothing makes me thing that other than a total ignorance of the capabilities of any model Suzuki 4WD. Thanks for your opinion, I appreciate it. That's why I started this thread; to learn some stuff about what I should be looking to buy. I'll definitely be buying something in 6 weeks, so I need to do my homework now.
Thanks again!

Mind you, I don't want an auto as I like manuals personally, but if a Vitara can cut the mustard it is on the list. I've attempted a search for the specific pros and cons of Vitaras vs. Sierras but have not come across the detail I am after. I don't want to tyre-kick potential sellers by asking them to drive their Sierras and Vitaras prior to making up my mind, and you guys have been very helpful. What type of mods are required to make a Vitara a solid offroader. All the 4WD mags I have read over the years have endorsed Sierras over Vitaras and all the Suzi's I've seem cranking offroad have been Sierras. But that's likely my aforementioned ignorance.

I like the availability of Sierra parts and the apparent ease of working on them. I also know of a few owners who are very happy with their leafy Sierras and they could almost keep up with my old cruiser in the steep rough stuff

[Ben_Sierra]

Captain_Sensible wrote:

Steve, nothing makes me thing that other than a total ignorance of the capabilities of any model Suzuki 4WD. Thanks for your opinion, I appreciate it. That's why I started this thread; to learn some stuff about what I should be looking to buy. I'll definitely be buying something in 6 weeks, so I need to do my homework now.
Thanks again!

Mind you, I don't want an auto as I like manuals personally, but if a Vitara can cut the mustard it is on the list. I've attempted a search for the specific pros and cons of Vitaras vs. Sierras but have not come across the detail I am after. I don't want to tyre-kick potential sellers by asking them to drive their Sierras and Vitaras prior to making up my mind, and you guys have been very helpful. What type of mods are required to make a Vitara a solid offroader. All the 4WD mags I have read over the years have endorsed Sierras over Vitaras and all the Suzi's I've seem cranking offroad have been Sierras. But that's likely my aforementioned ignorance.

The mods Steve has listed would be the way to go.

Sure, if you wanna get real hardcore off road then Sierra's have the edge, but Vitara's go a lot of places. Unless you are doing really hardcore stuff then a Vitara is more than adequate and will be far nicer to live with as a daily driver.

[Captain_Sensible]

I do really hardcore stuff, Steve. I break cars, I roll cars, I hit trees with cars, etc. etc. If the car won't get over the obstacle, then I try another angle, and another, and another. I'm persistent. And I enjoy getting out bush - like up to the Cape and through the Kimberley in my old Cruiser several times over. I'm not new to offroad driving. I'm new to little Suzukis.

Much of the information I have found comparing Sierras and Vitaras sounds like this, lifted from a 4WD forum elsewhere:

"1/. Suzuki Sierra - very capable, lightweight vehicle. Small motor so doesn't carry loads well. Rough little buggers but lots of fun.
2/. Daihatsu Rocky - 30+ mpg if you find a diesel. Outstanding reputation for reliability. Getting a bit old now. The motor was the same as what was in those 2t-3t Daihatsu council tiptrucks from a good few years ago.
3/. Daihatsu Feroza - 1600 petrol. Good little weekender tripper / town car with style. Heavy duty drivetrain compared to other brand lightweights.
4/. Vitara - Put your money into something else IMHO "

I've not heard Vitaras referred to with nearly as much praise as Sierras, and to me, just looking the two, it's obvious why. But that's again probably my ignorant viewpoint and I have NO experience with either, except for my ol' Grandads little Sierra over 30 years ago that was the first car I drove, and an absolute piece of crap due to neglect.

[alien]

have a look in the "rigs of auszookers" section for shandy92's vitara... it a good example of a budget build that goes great offroad... then look at atari4x4's build to see how to build a vitara weapon.

[Captain_Sensible]

Cheers Alien, I'll check it out now. But which vehicle is the better starting point for someone who might not have the initial outlay to mod a vehicle, but will merely want to keep it going as a commuter for a few months?

[alien]

either... theyd cost the same cos the vit already has the 1.6EFI if you buy the right one, so the money saved on that offsets the extra cost of other mods.

stock standard the sierra would go further than the vit, but once you start modding either they'll go about the same up to 30" tyres.

[Captain_Sensible]

Good advice Alien. Ignorance here: do Vitaras have leaf springs, if so what year models?

[alien]

all coils and IFS... theres different engines though, i dont know the acutal years but most in the sierra price range are 1.6L - however the older ones are carby and newer are EFI.

[Highway-Star]

Post up some info/details on this Land Cruiser your used to driving, and some pictures of where you drove it (if you can). May give us some idea of where you're coming from

[Captain_Sensible]

In that case it's back to the Sierra. I don't like coils and IFS. I'd rather put the engine in a Sierra with leafs and fixed axles. Plus I'm yet to find any information that says that Vitaras are better offroad than Sierras, rather they are better on road. I want to cover distance in neither comfort nor speed on road. Offroad I want to be able to fix the bugger, but I want it to work well in the first instance without serious modding. Of course there are some mean Vitaras out there, but I've also seem a capable 4WD Kingswood, for goodness sake!

Sorry if I sound arguementative, but this reflects the info a newbie like me finds when they search the interwebz

You can't blame me for asking lots of questions, if I didn't I'd be looking at a coily Sierra

[alien]

Captain_Sensible wrote:

You can't blame me for asking lots of questions, if I didn't I'd be looking at a coily Sierra

Good thing you asked then huh =)

[Captain_Sensible]

Highway star, I don't have a photo assay of my former vehicles. I may have a pic of my old Kombi somewhere I scanned in once, if you're that interested, but it is hardly the point of this discussion. If you've lived in north Qld and done a few long weekend trips up the Cape you'll know the tricky bits on the Bloomfield and Kreb tracks though, for example. But you can find rough stuff anywhere. The ol' cruiser simply had a 4" lift on bigger shackles and OME springs and some BF Goodrich muddies (can't even remember the size) along with a snorkel and an ARB winch, nothing special there. I miss her, I haven't had a 4WD outside of work hilux's for about 5 years now.

Back on topic, I reckon it's a Sierra I've after and it should do the commuting job fine, but not with the fuel economy I was expecting from a little car.

[royce]

alien wrote:

stock standard the sierra would go further than the vit, but once you start modding either they'll go about the same up to 30" tyres.

You know, I am fucking sick to death of hearing this, its the biggest load of shit I have ever read

how the hell is a wider longer car with more wheel travel and power going to be worse than a shitty little flogged out horse cart sprung sierra?

for fuck sake you lot until you've personally in the seat driving experienced both cars modded and stock stop repeating the same dribble some wanker in an overpriced magazine said once, its not cool anymore

[tanshi]

if your after a a car to out do the leafy land cruiser, having driven the creb and bloomfield tracks in my sierra,

any zook, jimny, sierra, vitara or LJ is going to eat a land cruiser.

those tracks are not what i would call hard.

yep, a sierra will do what you want, as long as your not interested in comfort. my sierra is massivly comfortable, but i have put alot of time and dollers into getting it that way

[Highway-Star]

Captain_Sensible wrote:

Highway star, I don't have a photo assay of my former vehicles. I may have a pic of my old Kombi somewhere I scanned in once, if you're that interested, but it is hardly the point of this discussion. If you've lived in north Qld and done a few long weekend trips up the Cape you'll know the tricky bits on the Bloomfield and Kreb tracks though, for example. But you can find rough stuff anywhere. The ol' cruiser simply had a 4" lift on bigger shackles and OME springs and some BF Goodrich muddies (can't even remember the size) along with a snorkel and an ARB winch, nothing special there. I miss her, I haven't had a 4WD outside of work hilux's for about 5 years now.

Cruiser's aren't really my thing. Just thought it would be a useful indication of what your expecting out of the vehicle offroad wise. Also you haven't said what model Cruiser. If it was a 40 series for example, any Suzuki will shit over it for comfort! And from what I have seen of 70 series cruisers any Suzuki will shit over it offroad!

Had my Sierra over 6 years now, and put over 50,000km on it. I don't see the issues with them for daily use, though if I bought one again I'd get a LWB trayback, purely for the benefits of a tin roof, and the practicality and room of a tray (the extra wheelbase will add some comfort also).

[Captain_Sensible]

Tanshi - no, not hard, but tricky in the wet season though, but mostly the creek crossings. Even Emmagen Ck is hard in the wet, mind you! There's a big benefit the the short wheel base, low roof height and light weight of the little 4WD's and I'm looking forward to some adventures. Glad to hear you've taken the Sierra up the Cape, it's encouraging. I tend to hold on to my vehicles and would like to maintain a Sierra and possibly do some long range trips. I did more than half the country in the cruiser, and in some parts the size was a pain in the bum, squeezing under trees and around tight bends. Turing it around on rough dead-end tracks was always a pain too! Even worse than reversing back out in low range

I hope the pic of my second troopy comes out. The engine totally died on old Daisy which was a 70 series (1986 model) and I sold her cheap to a mate who was keen. Can't find pics of the 40 series I had for 3 years from about 98-2001.

(EDIT: I think it's a 70 series in the pic, they changed in 1986 and this was the older type).

[Captain_Sensible]

Hey, thanks Highway-Star, I posted before I read your comment. I don't want to rock-crawl, but sometimes it just happens by accident when you're off exploring in the scrub. I never did anything like in your avatar, mind you!

Good to hear a little Sierra won't be any less comfortable than the 40 series, it was punishing. Corrugations were HELL.

[Highway-Star]

Captain_Sensible wrote:

Hey, thanks Highway-Star, I posted before I read your comment. I don't want to rock-crawl, but sometimes it just happens by accident when you're off exploring in the scrub. I never did anything like in your avatar, mind you!

Good to hear a little Sierra won't be any less comfortable than the 40 series, it was punishing. Corrugations were HELL.

The avatar was a brain fart! I don't do that as a norm!!!! I do push the poor little LJ a bit harder than most cars would like though

See if you can tag along on a local trip somewhere, and try and get a little bit a vehicle variety to go along. (or even try organising a local trip somewhere purely to the aim of checking peoples car out! ). Then keep jumping ship and getting in peoples passenger seats. You'll soon sort out the different idiosyncrasies of the different models, and make your mind up.

[Gwagensteve]

royce wrote:

alien wrote:

stock standard the sierra would go further than the vit, but once you start modding either they'll go about the same up to 30" tyres.

You know, I am fucking sick to death of hearing this, its the biggest load of shit I have ever read

how the hell is a wider longer car with more wheel travel and power going to be worse than a shitty little flogged out horse cart sprung sierra?

for fuck sake you lot until you've personally in the seat driving experienced both cars modded and stock stop repeating the same dribble some wanker in an overpriced magazine said once, its not cool anymore

A vitara has stuff all more wheel travel, inferior ground clearance, stuff all difference in power to weight and wonky gearing, and drags its front crossmember and sills on speedbumps stock... and sometimes wider and longer isn't an advantage.

I have plenty of experience with stock and modified vitaras and sierras. Vitaras are fine offroad, sierras are better, stock and modified. However, they are both quite different.... and it'd still only want to daily a vitara.

Captain - The only things about a vitara that are harder to fix than a sierra are the things that make them better - EFI and auto. Many of us own or want to build auto/EFI sierras, because they are better to drive.

Can you fix a diesel injection pump? (The answer is no, I'm guessing) Diesel fuel pumps are far harder to repair/understand than EFI.

It's time to embrace some technology Captain!

Steve.

[Captain_Sensible]

That would be lovely Highway-Star but bloody work has me tied up, and it's the weekend work that's going to pay for my new old car.

I want the car in your avatar, that would do quite nicely, although I'd also like a bull bar on the front, and a jerry can on the back

[Captain_Sensible]

Steve, I don't have a clue about diesel mechanics, of course! But with my accident-prone nature and desire not to spend money on initial outlay, a Sierra still takes my fancy. Someone should sell me a Vitara with a Sierra badge, I'd probably not notice

[Zook_Fan]

royce wrote:

alien wrote:

stock standard the sierra would go further than the vit, but once you start modding either they'll go about the same up to 30" tyres.

You know, I am fucking sick to death of hearing this, its the biggest load of shit I have ever read

how the hell is a wider longer car with more wheel travel and power going to be worse than a shitty little flogged out horse cart sprung sierra?

for fuck sake you lot until you've personally in the seat driving experienced both cars modded and stock stop repeating the same dribble some wanker in an overpriced magazine said once, its not cool anymore

By the same criteria as you just set you have pretty much concluded the sierra to be one of the worst stock 4x4's around... A patrol or cruiser has more power, they are wider and longer but the sierra can still out drive them stock on most tracks.

[Highway-Star]

Captain_Sensible wrote:

That would be lovely Highway-Star but bloody work has me tied up, and it's the weekend work that's going to pay for my new old car.

I want the car in your avatar, that would do quite nicely, although I'd also like a bull bar on the front, and a jerry can on the back

You'd get fed up with it pretty quickly commuting!
I used it for 3 months for daily driving whilst the Sierra copped an overhaul, but its not the most pleasant thing on Earth (heaps of fun though!). 1L motor, 4 speed box, spends most of its time doing more than 5000rpm, and sounds like its ready to throw a piston out of the bonnet if a dare approach 100km/h. Not to mention steering that changes alignment when the suspension oscillates. Some people cannot even handle the fact that the handbrake is in the passenger footwell! Totally bizarre car, but I love it.

[tanshi]

you can have this for 10K you may never get to work daily though

[royce]

Zook_Fan wrote:

royce wrote:

alien wrote:

stock standard the sierra would go further than the vit, but once you start modding either they'll go about the same up to 30" tyres.

You know, I am fucking sick to death of hearing this, its the biggest load of shit I have ever read

how the hell is a wider longer car with more wheel travel and power going to be worse than a shitty little flogged out horse cart sprung sierra?

for fuck sake you lot until you've personally in the seat driving experienced both cars modded and stock stop repeating the same dribble some wanker in an overpriced magazine said once, its not cool anymore

By the same criteria as you just set you have pretty much concluded the sierra to be one of the worst stock 4x4's around... A patrol or cruiser has more power, they are wider and longer but the sierra can still out drive them stock on most tracks.

Ive driven a D40 Dual cab places that a stock sierra wouldn't go so I guess its true

[alien]

tanshi wrote:

you can have this for 10K you may never get to work daily though

that LJ rocks my world.

[Captain_Sensible]

Highway Star, sounds like it would be a nightmare to commute in, but it's damn good looking!

Tanshi - holy cow, what a beast