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Post Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:26 pm 
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Pulled out of my build thread because I think it's a whole separate thing.

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noob beadlock questions :?:

What torque do you do these up too? does it depend on the type of tyre etc?

I can't clearly tell form the photos but it looks like there is a gap between the inner ring and outer? I've seen spacers available in various sizes for some bead locks that take up this gap. I assume this would be beneficial as the bolts could be torqued more accurately and any movement in the tyre (bead area) could theoretically let the outer ring move in and out? (with a gap) maybe loosening the bolts.

I've been looking at how various people go about weld on beadlocks. Some weld the inner ring on flush with the outer lip of the wheel and then grind the weld down, so the entire face of the wheel is smooth. Would there be any advantage going to this effort? or would leaving the lip (as you have done) help centre/ grip the tyre better?


Bolt tension would be ~25Nm or so, but It's not that straightforward. Because the inner ring flexes and the bead is rubber, you'll chase tension all over the place as you do them up. The very first set I had welded up was by Eastern Wheel Works. He wasn't happy with the supplied 3mm inner ring so made a 6mm inner ring and welded it flat to the bead lip. There was no advantage in doing this and it just made the tyre harder to get aligned as it could move around as it was being tensioned. the 3mm rings as supplied by TRIK racing flex and create a taper that centres the tyre. I start with about 4 bolts to get everything settled and then tension every second bolt and go around a few times trying to get everything equal.

Yes, there is a gap. It's not critical to anything. I have thought about spacers but they're fairly inconsequential. Nothing moves in or out. Once the bolts are torqued and everything has settled, the bolts don't loosen. I have seen people tighten the bolts until the gap goes away. I suspect that's the case when people weld the ring flush with the bead lip of the wheel. It looks neat but it's not critical.

I believe leaving the bead lip helps the outer ring pinch against the tyre. It also creates a nice prep for welding into. I did weld up a set on 16" F150 wheels years ago that had a very broad bead lip and when used with a super swamper which have a thick bead bundle I couldn't get the bolts to start, so I had to pull the apart and cut the bead lip down. That was a royal pain.

The thing I wouldn't be doing is grinding the rim lip and weld bead down flush after welding. There is a lot of force on that weld and it's in the wrong direction, i.e it's trying to tear the weld open from the back side. Any lack of penetration will become an issue once the reinforcement (cap) is ground away. I have had these welds crack after mounting tyres and breaking the rim down and re welding it isn't fun.


These steel kits work fine but they are a poor substitute for an alloy wheel that's made as a beadlock. My Walker Evans have been flawless, KMC, Method, trail gear etc are all the same - the tyre seats perfectly and runs true, they don't leak etc. However, they're now pretty much all 17" sizes and I needed a 15X6. the only source I could come up with were spun alloy mud racing rims from the US that were basically a welded conversion anyway and very expensive.

I dislike the Roktoy (design fab) style of kits which are very heavy duty but don't have the rolled lip on the outer ring. They don't have a means of centring the tyre and the tyre isn't supported on it's bead seat area. I'm sure they fine for a buggy but I prefer the Trik racing style.

Some current and old photos for reference

My current rim build

Image

Image


Jonno_Racing's Roktoy/Designfab style

Image

Gecko wheels, beadlock factory installed

Image

Trik racing 16" kit on a flipped and offset F150 wheel. I believe Piranha Offroad owns these now.

Image

KMC 15X8. I believe these are no longer available.

Image

These are some very, very old 15X7 rims with Trik racing beadlocks fitted by (perhaps) Peco Star. They were powder coated. They were ex Critta. When I re built them with my old Q78's on them, I fitted anti coning plates which I see roadrunner offroad now sell. I also installed the bolts back to front (nuts on the outside) because it's easier to tension them that way, but does leave the thread liable to damage.

Image


Last edited by Gwagensteve on Thu Sep 09, 2021 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 3:54 pm 
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Hey Steve,

Can you actually explain how and where the bead actually sits, and how they get bolted up?

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Post Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 6:01 pm 
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Thanks for the detailed reply Steve!

That clears a lot up. good point about grinding the lip/weld down, That never crossed my mind.
It's a shame no alloy's are available any more in a desirable size. That really only leaves gecko as a option if you're not willing to weld/fabricate some? (I read they went out of business but it appears their site is still up and running)

I like the gaffer tape trick too, That's the first time I've heard about it. Was the bead noticeably harder to seat once this was done? that could be something worth doing on a non-bead lock wheel too I presume.

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Post Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 6:10 pm 
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Sure Brenno.

I have an unmounted steel and alloy beadlock, you can see how they work and the difference in fitup.

I'll start with the alloy beadlock. This is a Walker Evans, they are all pretty much the same.

The bead sits in this step.

Image

Then the ring is laid on the top and bolted down.

Image

Whilst these alloy beadlocks give the impression there is no gap between the ring and the wheel when they're torqued up, you can see that the ring deflects significantly and while there is no visible gap on the outside, there certainly is on the inside.

OMF, a US supplier of rims and conversions, used to supply anti coning washers, which are just big wide thick washers, so try and keep the ring sitting flat and prevent bending load on the bolts.

Image

If you look carefully at the first photo, you can see the bolts have heavily eaten into the ring, which is supplied flat when new.

On a converted steel wheel, the fitup looks like this

Image

Image


Instead of the rim locating and centring the tyre, the beadlock ring does that job and the rim is flat.

Image


This is not the best photo, but you can see the difference here, and why there is a gap when the steel ring is bolted down. In the case of the steel beadlock, the inner and outer ring both deform, on the alloy rim, only the outer rim can deform.

In this photo you can see that both the steel and alloy rim start out as a whole, standard rim. A tyre could be mounted normally if you wished, eliminating the beadlock function.

The big issue with steel beadlocks are leaks. They leak for two reasons.

A) there are pores/stop starts/crater cracks in the weld between the inner ring and the bead lip. This is a hassle to fix as once everything is assembled and painted it all has to come apart to repair this weld, hence I penetrant tested my latest set. three of the four needed some touch up.

B) the bead bundle is damaged from previous fitment (in the case of second hand tyres) and air leaks past the bead. obviously, in both cases, the rim is sealing to the tyre on the back side of the bead, Tyres aren't designed to seal on this face so it can be a struggle, especially if the bead is torn up from mounting and dismounting.

I believe my latest set are completely leak free. I put that down to new, soft tyres and penetrant testing the weld.



Basically, to bolt them up, alloys have a thread cut into the rim, so you mount the tyre by pushing the front of the rim ( the beadlock side) into the back of the tyre, much like mounting a tyre normally.then you flip the tyre over, knock the tyre onto the lip, and install all the bolts, gradually working up to torque in a star pattern.

Likewise with the steel rim, but these use a nut on the back so there is a bit more labour. some attention has to be paid that the outer ring is sitting central on tyre, and not riding high. i used some detergent to get the ring to slip into the bead area of the roxxzillas - I had one not pull down square when trying without detergent. Again, I install 4 bolts and pull them down to ensure the ring is sitting flat and level, then install all the bolts and torque. I have used a star pattern before but this time I went around tightening every second bolt, then back the other way for every second bolt until they were all even.

Some other info - yes, if you whack stuff really, really hard with them it it possible to break bolts. This happened with my G wagen.

No, they are not road legal. This used to be a hassle but now almost every alloy rim is styled to look like a beadlock and supercrap sell beadlock style trim rings, telling the difference is very difficult and I don't think it's really a policing focus. They rims aren't dangerous on the road, they're just not approved.

There ARE DOT approved beadlocks. They are made by Hutchinson who supply military manufactures. They do sell to the public and their rims were available from Mopar for JK jeeps for about 5 minutes many years ago. They are a 2 piece rim with a liner so both beads are clamped. (You may be familiar with this from Hummer beadlocks - the the basis of their run flat system, which is made by Hutchinson) Their customer service department for civilians is non existent and its almost impossible to get rims out of them.

I hope this helps.

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Post Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 6:22 pm 
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Beery wrote:
It's a shame no alloy's are available any more in a desirable size. That really only leaves gecko as a option if you're not willing to weld/fabricate some? (I read they went out of business but it appears their site is still up and running)

I like the gaffer tape trick too, That's the first time I've heard about it. Was the bead noticeably harder to seat once this was done? that could be something worth doing on a non-bead lock wheel too I presume.


I"m sure there are alloys available, they're just nowhere near as common as they were ~15 years ago. It's also worth keeping an eye on off racing classifieds and offroad racing buy swap sell on Facebook. A set of 15X8 Methods came up recently.

OMF still offer 15" conversions
TR beadlock wheels (previously known as trail ready) offer a 15X9
Allied offer the savanna in 16X8

Yes, the gaffer tape trick added about 10 psi to bead seat pressure. It's absolutely worth doing non-beadlocked.

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Post Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 6:42 pm 
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Another Facebook group to join. :lol:

hmm, Trend seems to be on the wider size though for many tyres you would run on a Suzuki I would've thought. At least they're out there though and there's options.

That's a good result. Definitely something I'll be doing if/when I have issues.

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Post Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 7:21 pm 
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Yes I agree, the "normal" size for 15" beadlocks was 15X8, because America and everyone was running 12.5" tyres.

Here's the manufacturer I found for custom, spun alloy lightweight rims with options for outer and inner and outer beadlocks.

http://www.realwheel.net/products.php?catid=17

15X6, 3" BS, 5 on 5.5" with outer beadlock: USD $670 each :shocked:

Here's another option: have these welded onto a new jimny 15" alloy, which seem to turn up pretty cheap now

https://pro1raceparts.com.au/product/ke ... -rims-289/

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Post Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 9:49 pm 
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jeez, that would be properly exxy once landed here!

Have you had any experience with a alloy weld on kit? Would have to be a very professional job I would think to avoid problems with cracking/ fatigue over time etc...
Functionality aside, a new jimny alloy with a beadlock would be a pretty cool wheel though.

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Post Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:07 am 
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I don't have experience with them personally, but I'm going to suggest it's not actually super critical weld, only that it's sealed. There so much weld holding the ring on the weld isn't that stressed. Any welder who can weld it leak free would do.

Interestingly, I was getting rid of some old tyres at the tip the other day and there was a EA Fairmont Ghia alloy there with a welded on alloy beadlock. (from a speedway sedan) It was trashed - they hadn't even taken the tyre off, but the inner ring was still welded on fine.

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Post Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:20 pm 
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This is a great thread!
Thanks for putting in the effort Steve.

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