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Winch battery minimum size
https://www.auszookers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=46730		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  31zook [ Mon Jun 23, 2014 6:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Winch battery minimum size
Hey guys, I have a freshly rebuilt warn M8000 winch, and a stock jimny battery.

Today while winching up a step the car battery light came on and the winch stopped pulling, next the car died and it had a flat battery. So, my winch is super under powered, and I need my car to cope with winch sessions.

Is there a way of working out the correct amp hr for a battery to not run it flat and so that im still cranking if it stalls.

I have a stock alt, but do have the falcon alternator to stick on, but I think the battery still needs to be better then what ive got.

Cheers, Wilso :D
Author:  Mike57 [ Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Winch battery minimum size
How long were you winching for, what size is your alternator and how old is the battery. Also do you still have the small stock battery?

I have the M8000 and the Optima D51 and winching for short periods at a time is OK but you could not run the winch continuously. I will winch for about 10 seconds and then let it rest for 20 seconds. My alternator is 75 amps. So far no problems but my secondary battery is the same type so I can swap them if I destroy the main battery. If you let the battery volts drop below 10 or 10.5 volts then there is most likely permanent damage to most types of batteries. The battery voltage will drop down to this level while winching and that is OPIK for short periods but it needs to be allowed to recover.

My M8000 will draw 200 + amps. (I have measured it but not under full load). That means that no matter how good your alternator is most of the current will come from the battery. If you draw 100 amps + from the battery for any prolonged period you will kill it. However, if you only draw the high currents for short periods and allow the battery to recover slightly in between you will be OK. The thing to watch is internal heating of the battery which will destroy it.

Mike
Author:  31zook [ Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Winch battery minimum size
As soon as the winch came under load it stopped pretty much and stalled out the car. I was only spooling in the rope to take up tension for about 20sec before, then I rested the winch, brought the revs up, waited for a min and tried again to no avail.

Thanks for the tech, ill start looking up the D51's now :D
Author:  atari4x4 [ Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Winch battery minimum size
i'd look at upgrading the alternator as well if you haven't already.
Author:  Mike57 [ Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Winch battery minimum size
Then it seems your battery was stuffed before you even started winching. If you only have the 50 amp alternator then an upgrade would also help as Atari suggests. As my car is pretty new I will leave the 75 amp alt in place until it fails. If upgrading go for 120 amp but even then remember you can still kill your battery.
Author:  31zook [ Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Winch battery minimum size
Okay, but if my battery was bigger would it haul better? Or just for a smidge longer before it does the same thing due to the poor alt working OT.
Author:  Sco-tie [ Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Winch battery minimum size
Mike57 wrote:
no matter how good your alternator is most of the current will come from the battery.

Mike


Yep a bigger battery will last longer, a bigger alternator will charge quicker and help the battery more.
Author:  atari4x4 [ Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Winch battery minimum size
^^^ bingo, and to simplify it.... battery is the bathtub & the alternator is the hose filling it, winch is the drain pipe.
Author:  31zook [ Mon Jun 23, 2014 8:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Winch battery minimum size
Excellent- ill start saving for a new battery.

Mike57, this your one? And it fits?

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/OPTIMA-D51R- ... 3ca&_uhb=1
Author:  Jezza86 [ Mon Jun 23, 2014 8:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Winch battery minimum size
Jezza86 wrote:
lol, got upped by Australia post for not having my battery posted to my PO Box... what a suprise...
anywho, photos tell the story
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Author:  Jezza86 [ Mon Jun 23, 2014 8:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Winch battery minimum size
D51T1 JIS (little) terminals
Author:  31zook [ Mon Jun 23, 2014 8:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Winch battery minimum size
Cheers jezza!

I've got the big terminals anyway, so I'll get the biggest I can :D
Author:  Jezza86 [ Mon Jun 23, 2014 8:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Winch battery minimum size
then you want D51T2
Author:  Munster [ Tue Jun 24, 2014 5:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Winch battery minimum size
I use a 660cca http://www.supercharge.com.au/supercharge-classic-n70zz battery in my Zook which runs the winch OK, and I have a Falcon alternator 110amp.
Author:  Mike57 [ Tue Jun 24, 2014 6:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Winch battery minimum size
Get the one Jezza suggested . I have the D51. The D51R has the terminals reversed so don't get that one. Jezza pourchased more recently so has latest model numbers I think.

If you don't have ABS fit another battery as a secondary under the bonnet and then a big switch to put them is parallel when winching. Effectively a battery twice the size. Even if it is down the back you can still connect them together. They will last longer and with less stress on either battery. It also means you can winch in longer bursts before stopping to wait for the recharging to take place.
Author:  31zook [ Tue Jun 24, 2014 8:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Winch battery minimum size
Jimny's have a tiny battery hole, so im pretty sure that wouldn't fit Munster :-(

Thats an awesome idea!

Is it possible to do that Mike and also use the 2nd battery for fridge/camp light, or going parallel will mean its a one use battery?
Author:  Jezza86 [ Tue Jun 24, 2014 10:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Winch battery minimum size
You csn set up a duel battery system for normal charging and isolation then the 2nd battery in the boot can run all your toys n lights and just overide the isolator when winching with some long ass jumper leads, or dedicated leads perminantly installed with a 150A master/isolator switch. Battery in the boot means you can choose the biggest and best option avalible a d31m. 900cca and 75 Ah, I have one in my boat. Best decision ever. The extrs terminals can be for charging and accessories like your fridge. The t2 terminals are perfect for a pair of fat copper cables ready to make that winch pull faster then ever, or jumpstart a v8 landcruzer
http://www.optima-batteries.com.au/opti ... -d31m.html
Author:  31zook [ Wed Jun 25, 2014 7:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Winch battery minimum size
Could I fit one giant switch that takes it from being charged via altenartor, to parallel? Under the bonnet or via a small switch in the dash...
Author:  Jezza86 [ Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Winch battery minimum size
yeh you dont need a battery charging kit, you could do it all on one lot of winch grade wiring. 3 options as i see it

1. automated duel battery system to keep 2nd battery charged, thick wires from 1st to 2nd battery with a isolator for powering winch. (most reliable, charges 2nd battery for you, less fuckups)

2. thick wires from 1st to 2nd battery for powering winch, and charging, you have to turn the isolator to charge/ recharge the rear battery, and stop the starting battery going flat when your running accessories of your secondary battery (if you are runingthe 2nd battery in the boot and the cables are already in the car, theres no reason the isolator cant be next to your gearstick with duel voltmeters next to it so you can see 1st battery/ charge voltage, and 2nd battery voltage, when the isolater is switched off. this could be a reminder to charge your rear battery when your driving)

3. thick wires from 1st to 2nd battery for powering winch, and charging. a contractor pack between the batteries allows you to flick a switch on the dash when you need to use or charge the 2nd battery. (incase you find space under your bonnet to mount the 2nd battery)

a isolator mounted inline is cheap (ebay 45 bucks for a brand name one
or a contactor pack if you want a little switch in the dash. not as cheap.

http://piranhaoffroad.com.au/product/re ... actor-pack
Author:  31zook [ Wed Jun 25, 2014 5:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Winch battery minimum size
Thanks jezza, ill keep looking at schematics and workout whats best for me.

2nd battery will be under the bonnet FWIW.
Author:  got_bar_work [ Wed Jun 25, 2014 7:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Winch battery minimum size
I have a big rotary switch in my vit dash.
It has 3 cables
One from batt 1 (18ah ) and alternator
One to batt 2(35ah)
One to all the load in car
U can turn the dial from
Batt 1
Batt 2
Both
Off
I leave it on both most of the time
Turn it to 2 when camping overnight
Turn it off when parked at home
Author:  31zook [ Wed Jun 25, 2014 7:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Winch battery minimum size
Got a link to the right switch for that?
Author:  Jezza86 [ Wed Jun 25, 2014 8:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Winch battery minimum size
tada
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/HD-Dual-Batt ... 1c1&_uhb=1
Author:  Jezza86 [ Wed Jun 25, 2014 8:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Winch battery minimum size
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NARVA-BATTER ... 1281&rt=nc
1500A at 12V for 10 seconds
750A at 24V for 10 seconds
300A at 12V continuous load maximum
150A at 24V continuous load maximum

so 10 second duity cycles when winching
Author:  Jezza86 [ Wed Jun 25, 2014 8:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Winch battery minimum size
2 brand new D51 optimas are still only going to make 900A, plus 60A of alternator so nearly 1KA
Author:  Mike57 [ Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Winch battery minimum size
900 amps but not for all that long I am guessing. The CCA rating is how much can be delivered but I am not sure for what length of time they must deliver that current to achieve the rating. Anyway everything the Jezza states above is correct. The only issue with the switch is forgetting to switch it off when camping and flattening both batteries OR buying one with insufficient rating and cooking it when winching but this is exactly want I was suggesting for a dual battery set up. Use a switch to connect them together when winching.
Author:  jonno_racing [ Thu Jun 26, 2014 6:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Winch battery minimum size
Is thr d51 the same size as a stock zook battery?
Author:  tanshi [ Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Winch battery minimum size
I didn't think that deep cycle batterys liked winches being connected to them.
Author:  31zook [ Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Winch battery minimum size
^yellow tops are a bit of both tho
Author:  Jezza86 [ Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Winch battery minimum size
Normal deep cycle batteries have their plates stacked closer together for efficency, so can arc internally under a high enough amp load. AGM makes the pathway more efficient for the half cell reactions to occour while prdventing the arc to the extent of a conventional wet starting battery. Hydrogen production during big pulls will also vent quickly from a deep cycle batery killing it AH capacity. Agm batteries should only vent when being over charged or over heated. This retains the hydrogen and therefore the AH capacity
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