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Sierra spool cracked.... Stuffed?
https://www.auszookers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=44650		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  suzukikid [ Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:07 am ]
Post subject:  Sierra spool cracked.... Stuffed?
Hey all I broke a rear axel yesterday... Have ripped it all apart got the broken bit out of the centre and degreesed everything ready to go!

BUT

As I was about to put the silicone around the diff housing I have seen 2 hair line fractures in the spool it's self! You can see them one is about 2 I clock and one is at the bottom at the end of the long pin!
Image

My question is this is stuffed yeah? As soon as it gets some load it will just explode? The bang of the axel going wasn't even that loud.... So I'm saying the spool has been like that for some time! It's only about 10 trips old too! Maybe not even
Author:  31zook [ Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sierra spool cracked.... Stuffed?
I have had side gears like that that ive welded up like a spool and ran for 10+ trips with no dramas. I rekon you will be fine.
Author:  BlueSuzy [ Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sierra spool cracked.... Stuffed?
I've had cracked side gears like that too. Was strong enough to twist axles!
Author:  suzukikid [ Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sierra spool cracked.... Stuffed?
I'm taking it too my diff guy now to see what he thinks! I have my welded rear here that I did the ring and pinion on so if worse comes to worse ill get him to put the good ring and pinion onto the welded rear and run that again!
Author:  suzukikid [ Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sierra spool cracked.... Stuffed?
Well had the spool out an it is cracked in 2 places but only on the outer bit before it gos big to fill the centre! So there is still 30mm of axel covered by 30mm thick steel... So we kept it instead of going back to the welded diff!
Author:  jono165 [ Mon Jan 13, 2014 5:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sierra spool cracked.... Stuffed?
Trail gear or trail tough spool?
Author:  suzukikid [ Mon Jan 13, 2014 5:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sierra spool cracked.... Stuffed?
Was from low range....

But I kept it in there! There is no way known it can break any further!
Author:  jono165 [ Mon Jan 13, 2014 6:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sierra spool cracked.... Stuffed?
That will be a trail gear one then, the trail tough ones have 'trail tough' machined into them. I've heard of the splines stripping out of the trail gear ones.
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Mon Jan 13, 2014 6:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sierra spool cracked.... Stuffed?
^ This.

I can attest that Trail Tough spools are way tougher than stock and even EN-26 axles.

Time will tell if they're tougher than 300M, but due to the nature of splines, the axle should still fail before the mini spool.
Maybe TG went from soft to brittle?

Steve.
Author:  suzukikid [ Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sierra spool cracked.... Stuffed?
Ah ok! The old welded one I have in the shed that I stripped the ring an pinion on got a hard time for about 3 years.... The spool has done 10trips max....

The axel didn't go in a big way... I didn't even hear it bang! Haha I'm guessing it cracked the the axel broke and expanded!

Not sure how, the way there designedthere all locked in tight!
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sierra spool cracked.... Stuffed?
No. The axle didn't "expand." It would destroy the splines on the axle and the spool. The spool cracking might be associated with the shock load of the axle failing, or it might not be associated with the failure of the axle at all.

Steve.
Author:  suzukikid [ Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sierra spool cracked.... Stuffed?
Who knows it cracked! Haha see what happens with it I guess!
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sierra spool cracked.... Stuffed?
And so you asked people's opinion on here because?
Author:  losfer [ Wed Jan 15, 2014 8:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sierra spool cracked.... Stuffed?
Because this is the internet where you ask peoples opinions and then do absolutely nothing about it or do what you originally planned in the first place disregarding what anyone else thinks.

Are you new to the internet steve ?
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Wed Jan 15, 2014 8:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sierra spool cracked.... Stuffed?
Touché :D

Steve
Author:  Wazz [ Wed Jan 15, 2014 10:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sierra spool cracked.... Stuffed?
Gwagensteve wrote:
And so you asked people's opinion on here because?


And you posted this because?


At the end of the day he asked, got told by acouple people it will be fine then disassembled it and judged for himself. He is going to use it. No one said not to use it? Someone just 'heard' that this brand spool might strip the splines but never said to bin the friggin thing :lol:
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sierra spool cracked.... Stuffed?
Wazz wrote:
Gwagensteve wrote:

And you posted this because?


Because the op didn't do enough research to buy the right mini spool in the first place
Because the op doesn't know anything about mettalurgy or failure mechanisms
Because after that all being explained and drawn out, the op repsonds with "who knows"

I don't give a stuff whether the advice on here makes any difference to what the op actually does, the least they could do is be polite and feign some interest. Some people come on here to learn things.

Steve.
Author:  jonno_racing [ Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sierra spool cracked.... Stuffed?
I have a trail gear spool in my shed. . Might go run the file up it to see hpw hard it is.
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sierra spool cracked.... Stuffed?
TG spools seemed to suffer from extremely fast spline wear- to the extent that it seemed plausible they weren't heat treated at all.

Judging from the condition of the splines on the op's spool, that doesn't seem to be the problem- and that's what has made me wonder if the heat treatment is just really inconsistent with TG mini spools. If the heat treatment was poor, it might be possible that there is high residual stress on those splined edges due to the dramatic change of section from the edge to the chunk of eh centre.

It won't cause dramatic failure, but it's not ideal. I guess it's possible that the cracks could run along the change if section and that whole bit betweeen the two cracks could fall off. Because of the reduced axle engagement, it could trash an axle too.

If the boss is in fact brittle, then it's possible the normal bending action of a semi float axle could be causing the cracking. (I assume it's the short side that failed?)

I reckon hitting the spool with a file will tell you if it's hard or soft, but not if the heat treatment was otherwise faulty. My guess is if that spool was subject to macro examination, you'd see see some funky grain structure change in that change of section.

Who knows though :D

Steve.
Author:  Wazz [ Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sierra spool cracked.... Stuffed?
I daily drive my sierra with one of these spools. Never had it apart since fitting it to inspect for damage. I definetly know its strong enough to twist my axle splines but that wouldnt be hard.
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Thu Jan 16, 2014 8:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sierra spool cracked.... Stuffed?
I'm sure if there has been adequate heat treatment, the tg spool will be fine. When I talk about poor heatment, I suspect they're being cooled too quickly, so the small sections are suffering from embrittlement, as they are cooling much faster than the body of the spool.

It's possible that TG's heat treater was aware of this problem initially, so under cooked them. Which is why they had a reputation of being soft. Now they have the opposite problem.

I heard a rumor that there were some TT mini spools that had crook heat treatment too, but ours have all be sweet.

Steve.
Author:  suzukikid [ Thu Jan 16, 2014 2:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sierra spool cracked.... Stuffed?
Gwagensteve wrote:
And so you asked people's opinion on here because?


If you took the time to read it you would find out the diff was pulled apart to check how the spool was ... And as 31zook said it was fine! The cracks can't go anyfurther with the way it went!

Who said dont put it back in?
Author:  suzukikid [ Thu Jan 16, 2014 3:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sierra spool cracked.... Stuffed?
And wazz every time I have the rear of mine apart the splines have been bent then straight.... Haha so it was due to go!
Author:  kenn [ Sun Jan 19, 2014 6:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sierra spool cracked.... Stuffed?
Time for an air locker and JML full float axles.

Don't worry about Steve, he just likes the sound of his own keyboard. :)
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Sun Jan 19, 2014 7:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sierra spool cracked.... Stuffed?
There's clearly no need Kenn - those cracks can't go anywhere. :roll:

Steve.
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Sun Jan 19, 2014 7:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sierra spool cracked.... Stuffed?
Just to be clear, No, I didn't say don't put it back in, I didn't make any comment at all except trying to find out where the spool came from. It's up to you to decide whether to put back in a cracked part. I took offence to the "who knows" comment. Just because something is mysterious to you doesn't mean it's mysterious to everyone.

Did you give any thought to what might happen if those cracks join up along the change of section? Where is the little bit that breaks off going to go? What happens if it continues to crack and more bits break off? If you don't care that's cool, but again, why ask for information if you're not going to take it all on board.

It's clear you just wanted someone to say "run it" or "bin it" but it's never that straightforward.

Steve.
Author:  kenn [ Sun Jan 19, 2014 10:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sierra spool cracked.... Stuffed?
Steve I have reread this thread a few times now in an attempt to understand what it is that you are so butt hurt about.

In this statement of yours you suggest two possibilities and no definite conclusion.

Quote:
No. The axle didn't "expand." It would destroy the splines on the axle and the spool. The spool cracking might be associated with the shock load of the axle failing, or it might not be associated with the failure of the axle at all.

Steve.


Consequently drawing this statement from Suzukikid

Quote:
Who knows it cracked! Haha see what happens with it I guess!


Which I read as him agreeing with you as there is no definite conclusion as to why it cracked.
I don't believe he was being ungrateful, just comical, something that seems to elude you.

The reason I suggested an air locker is that I bought an air locker from Suzukikid a few years ago and though that this would be comical to him, also they decrease some of the strain on your axles as you can turn them off when they are not needed hence not twisting up your axles when cornering on bitumen. But you already knew that didn't you.

Kenn.
Author:  suzukikid [ Sun Jan 19, 2014 3:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sierra spool cracked.... Stuffed?
Haha this has exploded sence I have been camping!

I think when this axel gos its time for a full floater... Might start collecting parts now!

If the 2 cracks join up(witch they were heading away from each other) the peice still has to move out of the centre along the spline a fair way and then yes it could come out and mangle a diff! But I can't see how it will!
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