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Oil consumption - H series motors
https://www.auszookers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=43411		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  ninjamoses [ Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:47 am ]
Post subject:  Oil consumption - H series motors
Have racked up 1300km in the last few days in the GV and have just noticed the engine oil level had dropped considerably. Took around 700ml to top-up which seems rather excessive to me.

The motor runs great, doesn't make any abnormal sounds and it doesn't smoke at all on start-up or once warmed up. Anyone have any thoughts/ideas on what might be wrong? (other than it is rooted :lol: )

Using Penrite HPR 5W-40 oil in it. The motor is a H27A from an XL7. Serviced it when I installed it a few thousand km ago (oil pump, water plump, crank seals, timing chain etc). No oil leaks at all and the oil isn't milky or anything.

Have been doing a bit of reading on the topic but most of it seems related to poor running and/or blowing smoke, neither of which mine is doing. Any suggestions?
Author:  shandy92 [ Mon Oct 14, 2013 12:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil consumption - H series motors
i cant comment on oil consumption history but i think the best thing you could do is a compression test or a leak down test, these will give you an idea on what the internals are looking like. How many k's were on the motor when you got it?
Author:  ninjamoses [ Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil consumption - H series motors
Yeah have just bought a compression tester this morning. Will give it a burl when I get home tonight and will go from there.

Considering the complete lack of smoke and no signs of issues I wouldn't have thought there would be anything wrong with the internals, but not sure what else it could be.

Other posts I've read suggest anything from the PCV valve to valve stem seals, but again that is usually related to the engine smoking so who knows.
Author:  shandy92 [ Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil consumption - H series motors
ninjamoses wrote:
Yeah have just bought a compression tester this morning. Will give it a burl when I get home tonight and will go from there.

Considering the complete lack of smoke and no signs of issues I wouldn't have thought there would be anything wrong with the internals, but not sure what else it could be.

Other posts I've read suggest anything from the PCV valve to valve stem seals, but again that is usually related to the engine smoking so who knows.

yeah thats true, it could also be that the engine isnt use to sitting at constant revs for long time periods. (perth to kalbarri) when you drive it through the dunes do you notice oil consumption then? and was it at full before you left? You also dont know how long the engine was sitting at the wrecker for before he sent it to you.
Author:  killazook [ Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil consumption - H series motors
Also a good indicator if your engine is burning "excessive" oil is the spark plugs might pay to have a look. Because oil use can be a whole range of different issues.
Author:  ninjamoses [ Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil consumption - H series motors
Not a good start. Did the compression test as per the FSM (spark plugs out, injectors unplugged, clutch disengaged and full throttle).

Reading of 145 - 150 psi for all 6 cylinders. Supposedly is meant to be 199 - 227psi according to the manual with the minimum acceptable limit being 185psi.
Poured a bit of fresh oil down one of the bores and tested it again and it jumped up to instantly 210psi.

From what I've read I believe this points to fucked rings/bore clearance etc or could it possibly still be a valvetrain issue?? (ie. did I possibly stuff up the timing chain install and get it 1 tooth off or something)?

Sparkplugs all look fine and are a normal tan colour.
I've just about had it with these bloody v6 motors.
Author:  Chop [ Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil consumption - H series motors
Might pay to get someone to follow you on a drive with some heavy acceleration and deceleration. It may be blowing smoke, its not always visible from inside the car unless its copius amounts.
Author:  ninjamoses [ Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil consumption - H series motors
Just spoke to the guy I was offroading with on Friday afternoon as he was following me for most of the time. He said he didn't notice it smoking at all (and I certainly wasn't going easy on it at the time). So that makes no smoking regardless of it being cold, hot or under hard usage.

Makes me wonder what the hell could be wrong with such shitty low compression, disappearing engine oil but no obvious issues or symptoms.
Author:  atari4x4 [ Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil consumption - H series motors
might just be bedding in... never know, being an xl-7 donk it's probably been babied all it's life. :wink:

i'd keep an eye on it or maybe even go to a 10w40 & see if it slows up.
Author:  ninjamoses [ Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil consumption - H series motors
Yeah possibly. Going to buy a leak down tester tomorrow and see what results that gives me. Maybe the compression gauge just reads low lol
The fact the compression goes up with oil added isn't the best sign though.

Car runs fine but so I'm tempted to leave it for the time being, run some different oil/additives and just keep an eye on it like you say.
Author:  magnat [ Tue Oct 15, 2013 6:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil consumption - H series motors
Not sure but on my H27A it takes 5.5 litres of Oil on a Change, dipstick will be full.. 200k's later its 3/4's down on the dipstick and thats where it stays for the next 5000ks until I change it again..

I can top it up.... but 200k's later its back down to 3/4's on the dipstick..
Author:  fordem [ Tue Oct 15, 2013 7:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil consumption - H series motors
ninjamoses wrote:
Reading of 145 - 150 psi for all 6 cylinders. Supposedly is meant to be 199 - 227psi according to the manual with the minimum acceptable limit being 185psi.


Was that hot/warm or cold? Cold readings will be lower.

Also - I've had engines that with ridiculously low compression numbers - <120 warm, burning oil in amazing quantities, and to see it you had to drive behind the car with your eyes glued to the tail pipe, there would be the slightest puff of smoke on an upshift and that was it.

If you're running a synth, try a conventional - I've seen some engine burn synthetic (with no smoke) but run happily on a conventional oil.
Author:  losfer [ Tue Oct 15, 2013 6:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil consumption - H series motors
when you had the rocker covers/ timing chain cover off how did the engine look inside , was it all nice and clean like new , did it have a tan discolouration or was it all gunky ? ive seen similar issues where the rings just arent sealing correctly due to being gunked up and stuck in the grooves from lack of maintenance , that would also explain the compression jump when adding oil to cylinders.
Author:  ninjamoses [ Tue Oct 15, 2013 7:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil consumption - H series motors
Those readings were taken with the motor warm. Engine was clean as a whistle when I had it opened up previously.

Update time... Decided against doing a leak down test today since the local auto stores wanted my right arm for a test kit. Will order one online and do it when it gets here.

Went with plan b instead for today... Purchased a whole lot of liqui-moli goodness (Engine Detox, Engine Sealer and Injector cleaner) along with some genuine suzuki oil filters and some Castrol Magnatec 5w-30 to see if that makes a difference. Not sure what the engine detox stuff contains but it definitely seems to do something - made the car smoke like a chimney for the ten minutes I had it idling.

Went for a leisurely 390km afternoon drive once I had swapped it all over and just got back then to find.... it hasn't used a drop of oil!! :cool: :cool: :cool:

Will keep an eye on it over the next few weeks but hopefully it'll all be peaches now.

Bonus pic of the once again happy GV pompoms
Think I was slightly out of place haha, was walking around barefoot surrounded by hundreds of foreign tourists taking photos :lol:

Image
Author:  BJPK [ Wed Oct 16, 2013 5:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil consumption - H series motors
start using a 15-40 and see how it goes, could even use 20 - 50 in it if you had to.
If the vehicles still driving fine I wouldn't go pulling it down just yet
thicker oil will definitely slow the consumption.
Author:  ninjamoses [ Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil consumption - H series motors
Just an update to this - borrowed a different compression tester and have just tested it again now. All cylinders are between 198 - 205psi lol, so it turns out the new gauge I had bought was the issue after all.

Back to autopro we go for a refund. WTD compression tester.... not recommended.
Author:  russgt [ Thu Oct 17, 2013 12:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil consumption - H series motors
Thats great news! I would have thought with compression down like that it deffo isnt right. Usually you get 1 or 2 down but not all 6 perfectly the same.

Also i would imagine you would feel a big loss of power with such low compression.
Author:  fordem [ Thu Oct 17, 2013 12:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil consumption - H series motors
It is entirely possible for an engine with worn rings/bores to have all the cylinders read uniformly low and within the 5psi of one another as mentioned earlier.

Also - given the fact that the reading jumped to 210 on a "wet test" suggests that the tester is in working order rather than reading low - my suspicion would be user error.
Author:  ninjamoses [ Thu Oct 17, 2013 1:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil consumption - H series motors
fordem wrote:
my suspicion would be user error.


:lol: Thanks for the vote of confidence
Tested the gauges back to back this morning and the WTD gauge reads ~50psi lower than the other one I've got every time, so one of the gauges is inaccurate.
Author:  xl76 [ Thu Oct 17, 2013 6:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil consumption - H series motors
Hey guys
Personally I think you are running the wrong oil I run 10W40 Havolene and use 100 mls between services . I average 130 Klm a day and have 285 on the clock .
5W 40 is a bit thin for WA
Author:  Chop [ Thu Oct 17, 2013 7:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil consumption - H series motors
15w40 for me changed every 5000km and it doesn't lose a drop.
Author:  fordem [ Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil consumption - H series motors
xl76 wrote:
Hey guys
Personally I think you are running the wrong oil I run 10W40 Havolene and use 100 mls between services . I average 130 Klm a day and have 285 on the clock .
5W 40 is a bit thin for WA


5W40 is just as "thick" as a 10W40 where it matters - in the heat - that's what the 40 is; it's thinner in the cold - if it's cold where you are - that's what the 5 is.
Author:  klutched [ Fri Oct 18, 2013 8:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil consumption - H series motors
I'm running 10w30 atm, probably gonna switch to a 10w50. Hopefully the leaks slow up or stop. Still got 3500kms till next service though.
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