[Trypt]

I have seen a video on youtube of a guy that has modified a 12000 lb ebay winch by removing one of the 3 gearsets?
he doesnt really say in much detail but its bloody fast. Highmount fast and he claims that he has lost 50% line pull.
there is a decent looking winch on ebay, 13000 lb synthetic rope for under 400.
im thinking of doing this modification so that i have an ultra fast 6,500 lb winch and even if it does get nasty i can still use a block... or two.

What are people thoughts? ill see if i can find the video

[sando]

Why do you want a fast winch, will you be competing in winch comps? It just seems like a bit of a waste to buy a winch for 400 then mod the gear ratios. You are probably better off getting a winch of a lower rating. Or I wouldn't even bother with a winch on a sierra, IMO winches are good if you do touring on your own and can afford the extra weight. Neither of which suzuki are overly good at.

[zooky08]

I'm interested in this also, was going to start a thread.
I wanna know how to make a low mount winch fast that can neally be a competition against the high mount.
I would buy a high mount but there a bit big and heavy for my liking. And yes I'm interested in winch events.

[Trypt]

Im not interested in winch events, well not in my sierra maybe when i can afford to build a patrol
But it would save time and load on the electrics if ur winching for 5 minutes as apposed to 15.

I also like to go for quick wheels of only an hour or so during the week as i live really close to some good tracks. And yes a do go alone so a winch is almost a necessity.
And when you have line speeds of 15-20mpm there is not need to freespool.

this is the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAU5Ee836vo

[Trypt]

zooky08 wrote:

I'm interested in this also, was going to start a thread.
I wanna know how to make a low mount winch fast that can neally be a competition against the high mount.
I would buy a high mount but there a bit big and heavy for my liking. And yes I'm interested in winch events.

Im guessing you would use a reputable brand if ur interested in winch comps but if i do decide to do this i will be sure to make a detailed thread on "how to"
Im sure most winch gearbox's are pretty similar 3 stage planetary so the principle is the same.

[atari4x4]

build a proper hydraulic winch & mount in centrally, eg with a hydraulic pump & tank rather than tapping in to the powersteer like some do.

[Joshyboy26]

just take a winch apart and have a look theyre pretty simple.
the motor is on the left and drives a square or hexagonal or something shaft which goes through the drum and into the right side.
in there there is 3 sets of reduction gears.
these gears sets are planetary and slide over the shaft.
the shaft provides drive to the very outer gearset which then drives the next one which the drives the next one which then drives the drum.
the freespool is a ring similar to a gearbox how it selects a gear by joinig two gears together making one spin the other.

the issues will be which set to remove as they all are different ratios, and if this will intefere with the freespool as it engages the gearsets. so with one out they may not mesh together. maybe you will have to put a custom gear in with a 1:1 ratio that still matches up with the others?

sorry if im a shit explainererer haha

may as well just centre mount a highmount. they are cheap and strong and reliable. and are built to be fast, not sketchily bodged together so they go fast.
you will end up buying a shit $400 winch and realise youll have to spend $1000 on it to make it work. and itll still only be half as good as a highmount

JMO

[zooky08]

Yea I have a tigerz11 winch on my Jimny and it's slow.
I'm liking Atari idea.

[Trypt]

Excuse my retardedness... what do u mean by centre mount?

[Joshyboy26]

mount it just behind your seats under the car in between the chassis rails, ie the centre of your car. so its not hanging out the front. its better for weight distribution and lets face it, its way cooler


similar to the ute gwagon posted up in here viewtopic.php?f=7&t=33686

[got_bar_work]

Tiger use to make a comp low mount that was faster underload then a high mount

[Trypt]

got_bar_work wrote:

Tiger use to make a comp low mount that was faster underload then a high mount

Warn make a 6000 that does 15.5 mpm no load buts its over 2 grand!

why not just put a carton or two on the back seat to even out the weight

[zooky08]

I've got a Ute so centre mounting it will be no problem,.

[Gwagensteve]

Here's a little list of Warn's lineup

There's no tricks here - it's just a matter of gear ratio and motor HP. A quick scan down this list shows why I'm such a fan of the M6000. for a low mount winch, it's FAST and efficient. (Sure the 9500Ti is cool, but who has the budget for one of them?)


9,500-pound 9500TI, WARN 9.5ti Thermometric 3-stage planetary 156:1

lb f/minute amps
0 62.0 47
2,000 16.3 160
4,000 11.8 230
6,000 9.3 305
8,000 7.59 370
9,500 6.67 425

6,000-pound M6000 3-stage planetary 156:1

lb f/minute amps
0 48.5 46
2,000 23.7 121
4,000 12.9 185
6,000 10.0 249

9,000-pound XD9000 3-stage planetary 156:1

lb f/minute amps
0 22.5 70
2,000 14.4 180
4,000 11.0 255
6,000 8.67 330
9,000 6.38 460

8,000-pound M8274-50 134:1

lb f/minute amps
0 73.4 55
2,000 22.0 190
4,000 12.0 275
6,000 9.5 350
8,000 6.1 450

9,000-pounkkkd Tabor 9Kfff 3-stage planetary 216:1

lb f/minute amps
0 29.5 71
2,000 13.7 185
4,000 9.5 277
6,000 6.8 372
9,000 4.5 508

12,000-pound Tabor 12K 3-stage planetary 261:1

lb f/minute amps
0 24.4 73
2,000 12.6 168
4,000 9.2 245
6,000 6.7 328
8,000 4.9 405
9,500 3.8 475
12,000 3.3 549


Why is a fast winch important? because depending on your setup, you might rarely need 6000lb - what you need is to "assist" winch - where you have some traction, just not enough to drive. In NT which is predominantly flat but with long/deep bogs, this might not be all that relevant. However, in Victoria (and with a fairly capable car) most of the winching will be "helping" the car up a long, greasy hill. With a very slow winch, you'll be continually driving over the cable.

Ideally, you want the winch to be able to keep up. Comp guys try to get their winch to run at the speed of the car at peak torque in 2nd low. That's not with 6:4 transfer gears either - some of these cars would be running as fast in low 2nd as we are in high second.

Also look at the amp draw vs speed at no load. That's where you can see the 8274-50 has a very efficient brake. It's why they can run the tallest gearing yet have the 2nd lowest amp draw yet be by far the fastest winch at low load.

Can a low mount be made to match a high mount? Maybe. I've seen a couple of those winches with one planetary pulled. I haven't pulled one apart myself, but as Josh says, I understand it's easy. However, it's not without some downsides.

Here's my understanding - You need to start with the right winch. Pull a gear set from a 156:1 ratio winch and you'll end up with a lightning fast winch that won't pull a thing. If you start with an early XD9000, which are geared like a 12K winch, you get a small-frame winch with a high line speed. I disagree that you only loose 1/2 the capacity though. You'll loose pretty much whatever the ratio is of the gear set you pull. Pull 3:1, you'll turn a 9000 winch into a very fast 3000lb winch. Get ready to break out the snatch block if you are really stuck.

I don't have the room, or money for a high mount. Whilst I was happy with the work I did on CJ's car with the mid-mount 8274, I think there are issues, least of which Its a nightmare to get to - it's almost impossible to even see. Cable routing needs to be done with care, least of which is you'll need to run the cable past some hot stuff or near things that move/spin. It's hard to get to the free spool lever. It takes LOTS of fabrication. All up, it's miles more complicated than a front or rear mounted winch, especially if you want to be able to winch either way.

I'll add, I'm going to pull a planetary from my early XD9000 before it goes into Piggles. I might throw a 6hp motor on it though.

That winch is going in the back. If I want a front winch it will be a M6000 with a cut down drum so it goes beside the steering box tucked back as fares possible to the crank.

Now to the weight of the 8 high.

The M6000 weighs 74lb
The 8274 is 110lb

The difference in the weight of the cable between the two winches is 14lb, so with the same cable/ on each winch the difference is 22kg, or exactly 10kg. That doesn't sound like much, but as the winch is taller and deeper. it's both taller and sitting further forward than a low mount, and to start with it's already way in front of the front axle, the worst possible place to be adding weight.

Anyway, just some thoughts.

I don't actually like winching, and will avoid it ( I haven't had a winch on a car for over 15 years) but like anything, if you're going to put something on the car, it needs to be the right tool for the job. A $500 12k winch isn't the right tool for a suzuki.

Steve.

[Trypt]

many thanks Steve, for yet another insightful and informative post

[Built4thrashing]

Any winch is better than no winch at all when your stuck and really need one.

[Gwagensteve]

Built4thrashing wrote:

Any winch is better than no winch at all when your stuck and really need one.

This isn't true.

A winch that's too small can be very dangerous. Have you seen a winch with a slipping brake? I've never been more scared than watching a guy winch his car on a very steep rocky track with a crap brake. Every time he stopped winching the winch would start to unspool.

No winch is a substitute for going off road with at least one other car.

I'd say

Quote:

A reliable and adequately sized winch is better than no winch at all when your stuck and really need one.

Steve

[Zook_Fan]

Just to add my experience to this post:

appsie wrote:

zooky 08...russel mason from rocky runs a twin motor low mount in his gq shorty winch truck,i have watched this winch in person and its ridiculous. he makes them himself at home and they are fast.they are geared up a fair bit though so probably dont have the load rating of a high mount. i believe he is now also doing triple motor setups and machines up his air free spool etc.

a mate of mine,now runs one of his twin motor winches in his 45 series winch truck and last weekend at the winch challenge it opened everyones eyes,it is stupidly fast,at times probably too fast and scary. it outwinched a fellow competitors 4 motor gigglepin hi mount winch. He was having trouble getting enough battery power to run the low mount but all seems to be sorted now

Russel Mason will be building the winch that I will be using for my first winch event in November. The base winch will be the Warn Tabor 9k with the 216:1 planetary gears. Russel will then be adding a 6hp warn motor, water proofed drum ends, rope, free spool and gearing the winch to suit the weight of the car. It will be run on 24v and he believes will be a very competitive winch. When funds allow, hopefully after the first event, it will be upgraded to a twin motor winch and will need a different planetary.

[ajsr]

Joshyboy26 wrote:

mount it just behind your seats under the car in between the chassis rails, ie the centre of your car. so its not hanging out the front. its better for weight distribution and lets face it, its way cooler


similar to the ute gwagon posted up in here viewtopic.php?f=7&t=33686

yeah super cool until it fucks up , jambs or snaps the rope. then it will be gayer than a double dose of aids

[Joshyboy26]

ajsr wrote:

Joshyboy26 wrote:

mount it just behind your seats under the car in between the chassis rails, ie the centre of your car. so its not hanging out the front. its better for weight distribution and lets face it, its way cooler


similar to the ute gwagon posted up in here viewtopic.php?f=7&t=33686

yeah super cool until it fucks up , jambs or snaps the rope. then it will be gayer than a double dose of aids

you dont worry about that till later on haha.
its a good idea in theory. maybe a trap door or something over it so it has better access, i dont know to be honest ive never given it any thought at all. with my swb im cramped for room as it is.

also while were here how do they get it to feed onto the drum nicely when its centre mounted? something like a hose reel setup where it runs accross the front? or just let it do its thing?

[Trypt]

ajsr wrote:

Joshyboy26 wrote:

mount it just behind your seats under the car in between the chassis rails, ie the centre of your car. so its not hanging out the front. its better for weight distribution and lets face it, its way cooler


similar to the ute gwagon posted up in here http://www.auszookers.com/forum/viewtop ... =7&t=33686

yeah super cool until it fucks up , jambs or snaps the rope. then it will be gayer than a double dose of aids

was thinking the same thing, but im sure im viewed as a noob so didnt want to offend.

[got_bar_work]

My winch was playiing up so i put my father inlaws old 12000 tiger winch in my vit
First time i went to use it the brake stared slipping on a big rock steep
It is crazy shit
I dont want to use it again so i need to look for a new winch
Like steve i want a fast winch that im not driving over the rope all the time
What motor is on the m6000
Would the 7.2hp bolt up to it
That would make for a fast wich

[sierrajim]

low mounts, pfft.

http://s1165.photobucket.com/albums/q58 ... G_0443.mp4

[Joshyboy26]

^^that would weigh more than the fucken car haha

[Zook_Fan]

sierrajim wrote:

low mounts, pfft.

There's no way in a Sierra to get any sort of potential out of that. It would almost be too fast and uncontrolled.

got_bar_work wrote:

My winch was playiing up so i put my father inlaws old 12000 tiger winch in my vit
First time i went to use it the brake stared slipping on a big rock steep
It is crazy shit
I dont want to use it again so i need to look for a new winch
Like steve i want a fast winch that im not driving over the rope all the time
What motor is on the m6000
Would the 7.2hp bolt up to it
That would make for a fast wich

The m6000 has a 4.8hp motor. Yes any motor that will bolt up to the warn bolt pattern will bolt up to it including the 7.2hp. It should be noted that the 7.2's are not as reliable as the 6hp genuine warn motors and also don't have the same torque. And they do not last long at all if you step up to 24v. The better option would be the warn motor IMO.

[OFFROAD_SOLUTIONS]

zooky08 wrote:

I'm interested in this also, was going to start a thread.
I wanna know how to make a low mount winch fast that can neally be a competition against the high mount.
I would buy a high mount but there a bit big and heavy for my liking. And yes I'm interested in winch events.

Mate this is totally possible and can be purchased ready to go with no down sides except the price. Last I knew russel mason from arb rockhampton was modifying warn 9500lb two speed winch's to run twin motors and air free spool and was out running the highmounts but they wernt cheap. But they still pulled the full rating not halfed like the other mods mentioned.

[dank]

Most of the warn lineup and all copies of them will run 6:1 in the end planetary. this will reduce the ratio by six times if your remove it. i've played around heaps with this from ratios of 26:1 up to about 80:1. 80:1 with a 6HP motor is not bad, but I still found it to run out of steam on really tough winch sections in the otways. I also had 115:1 and this was a good compromise between speed and power. I'll be going back to this once I can be bothered to pull the geabox off again. High speed can also be dangerous. Gotta watch your hands. Between myself and harley we have every planetary gearset in the warn range for the basic lowmounts, has taken a few years and some luck to get these all.

http://s170.photobucket.com/albums/u268 ... ter=videos - this is my winch with the 26:1 gears. Useless at winching...was fast though!

Also remember the brake becomes less effective when removing planetary gearsets.

[zooky08]

Thanks for the info. I understand you don't need a fast winch, and it could be dangerous. it's going to be a while yet until I even consider building a car for winch events. I wanna be prepared and and not buy the wrong winch when it comes to buying one. Any who the warn m6000 should be good enough. And should deffently eat shit over my Tigerz11 winch.

[zooky08]

.......

[got_bar_work]

Dank was the tiger 11 comp.winch any good
On paper it looks the goods
How is it in the real world