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Sr20det/auto into winch truck
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Author:  zookprojectfnq [ Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Sr20det/auto into winch truck
Hi
I have a sierra that I compete in winch challenges. I have cut and extended the chassis 400mm and run spring over axle hilux diffs with 33" centrepedes.
I need a lot!! more power to remain competitive in the open class. Currently i have a worked g13b with 5 speed and 6.5 gears.
I have 1" body lift. I want to put an standard red top sr20det./rb20 manual valve body auto in it. I plan on rear mounting the radiator and trans cooler so fan clearance isnt an issue. I know the transfer mounts won't handle it and plan on using a slutty snatch set up. I use modified 80 series drive shafts with a double carden joint on the front.

Question one: Will the transfer handle it!
Question 2 : Is height/ sump clearance going to be an issue
Question 3:Has it been done before with an auto. I have searched and found manuals but not autos
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Author:  Fatzook [ Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sr20det/auto into winch truck
1. Most likely not. Definately not under comp conditions.

2. Quite possibly. They are a VERY tall motor. You will also need a custom sump, as they have no real sump to speak of, so side angles and hills could see the pickup run dry.

3. IMO it would be an easier conversion with the auto.
Author:  JrZook [ Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sr20det/auto into winch truck
Didn't you have a 1600 16V lined up to go in it Chris?
Author:  DarkHorse [ Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sr20det/auto into winch truck
Wow Fatz, you managed to answer that without even mentioning a 1uz! Proud of ya!

FWIW plenty of people have thrown SR20s in Hiluxs, so adaptors for lux boxes are around (Marks and Dellows both do one) which gives you options. Don't know about fit in a sierra, but it's the best option I've come across for a Vit.

RB boxes should pretty much bolt straight up, but that still leaves you without transfer... unless you go R34 AWD :twisted:
Gearing would suck for a comp truck though :(

Trolls had RBs in them for a while, but a box and transfer from a GQ would double the weight of your car :lol:
Author:  zookprojectfnq [ Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sr20det/auto into winch truck
I did have one lined up. A beleno coil pack motor but des sold it. The comps are starting to have a lot more high speed, which I don't have. A lot of the patrols are putting out 400-500 RWHP, that's in a 3 ton car. So for me to remain competitive I figure I need about 200hp for 1200kgs.
I see Mr rocky has done a CA18det. How did the Tfer case handle that. An auto would soften the blow. On pirate the yanks are fitting v6s and v8s with the transfer. The only thing Im worried about is the front output shaft where the coller slides is a bit twiggy. I see lowrange do an upgraded one but will it be enough. I thought it might be worth getting it nitrited.
Author:  nick_bj40 [ Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sr20det/auto into winch truck
If ur only after 200 u would come close to tht with a g16 + turbo maybe some internal work but u would get close.. Or 4agze get up there with out to much work.. Can't help with the transfer but I think with alot of bracing a well built transfer (which includes out puts as previously mentioned) would go a long way not sure if this helps but best of luck mate

Nick..
Author:  Brenno [ Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sr20det/auto into winch truck
I have a ca18det in mine with 200hp (at fly). The Tcase has spat some gears off the input shaft, however as I wasnt giving it much herbs at the time, it hard to say whether it was due to the power, or manufacturing fault. If the case is braced and the gears are shimmed you should be right. As you have cruise shafts, and hilux diffs, everything else should hold well. The ca18det has a regular sized sump too FYI.
Author:  zookprojectfnq [ Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sr20det/auto into winch truck
Pm sent Brenno
Author:  BlueSuzy [ Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sr20det/auto into winch truck
Anything with high HP i would be tempted to run a vit or lux transfer.
Gbox tunnel widened and all new mounts..
Your rear diff is already central, so that will work.
Author:  2stroker [ Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sr20det/auto into winch truck
Not sure how strong they are but has anyone used an early remote nissan transfer for these powersups
Author:  tanshi [ Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sr20det/auto into winch truck
J20a?

almost as easy to fit as a g16. plenty of power.

The transfer i suspect would be fine. and if not there are plenty of options out there for other transfers if you blow one.
Author:  dank [ Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sr20det/auto into winch truck
I'm gonna stick my neck out here and say even with 200hp I don't think you will be able to maintain enough speed with a springover setup and being that tall you will find it difficult to be able to maintain and hold speed through corners and over the really rough stuff.

I would also say have a serious look at a Toyota 3RZ-FE Motor. Being NA you won't have any boost related problems and those motors Haul Ass in a Dual Cab Hilux so I can see it being a weapon in a rig like yours.

Or why not go nuts a put a 2JZ twin turbo with the AW4 behind it. SHould fit..... :P

Have a look at the thai zooks that came out to the OBC in 2006 and won...they were fast low and had heaps of power...they also had god winches i believe and 3SGTE motors with the turbos in the passenger footwell lol.
Author:  Brenno [ Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sr20det/auto into winch truck
I agree (although I dont have any first hand experience). you will need something low, but also something that has good compression travel to absorb the large bumps and washouts. Coil overs and larger gaurd chop perhaps. 3rz would be a good option, into hilux transfer. Although, then you have a hilux....
Author:  zookprojectfnq [ Thu Apr 12, 2012 5:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sr20det/auto into winch truck
I was looking at a 5vz-fe 3400 v6/auto/transfer from a late 90s hilux but the right hand headers are in the road of the steering shaft
Author:  appsie [ Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sr20det/auto into winch truck
i think the 3rz option sounds good followed by the rest of a lux drivetrain. 4.7 gears in the case if you need some crawl back and heavy duty outputs etc.
But then you may aswell sell what you have and build a lux.

i think you are really going to be limited by your height,width and spoa setup anyway.
Grant sweetman a local used to run a j20a lwb zuk spua on 31s,6.5 gears still on zuk diffs and it was a absolute weapon of a thing.Didnt have full on top speed like other trucks but was zippy and awesome in the tight shit.
Author:  gregc [ Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sr20det/auto into winch truck
we had a lwb with SR20 > auto > sierra xfer with rockhopper series 1 > 3.7 sierra diffs > 32" Centipedes in the club down here for a while.

I dont recall it ever having issues with blowing up any parts with that setup.

The engine was originally fitted to a swb with a 5 speed manual but it was just too much power for the swb. The auto definately smoothed the whole thing out and made it into a quite a good little car.

I realise you are chasing more power than the standard SR20 though.
Author:  Zook_Fan [ Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sr20det/auto into winch truck
I was watching you up in Mackay over the weekend and came home with the same plan for my winch truck build :lol: . My plan was an auto, well reinforced suzuki transfer and take a spare to a comp in case and a lux case if the sierra didn't hold up after testing.
Author:  zookprojectfnq [ Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sr20det/auto into winch truck
I plan on running a standard engine with standard boost. Pretty much got my mind made up now how Im going to go just waiting to hear about an engine
Author:  got_bar_work [ Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sr20det/auto into winch truck
If ur starting from scratch I would get a lwb auto 2l vit and drop a 2.7 in it
A lot of guys in the states run standard tc gears and run in low range when in the off road racing
Author:  GRPABT1 [ Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sr20det/auto into winch truck
For the effort involved in the engine swap if 200hp is your goal then I would turbo the G13B. Many GTi's are getting around boosted with 200hp and more, no road less travelled shit. Might be a little laggier than an SR20 but that will probably be mostly negated by the gearing and would help the transfer cope if you managed to get it to come on smoothly with a decent controller.

I've always thought your rig was a bit high and a bit under tyred though Chris, how does it handle round corners now with the extra unsprung mass of the lux diffs? I would be looking at fitting 35's and losing some spring hight if you're going to be adding more speed to the combo.
Author:  zookprojectfnq [ Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sr20det/auto into winch truck
For me, Actually fabricating and fitting the motor and getting it lined up is the easy part for me as Im in my comfort zone. When it comes to mucking around with engines that don't come factory with a turbo and getting aftermarket injectors, computers and electrics all sorted, I know nothing about. so setting up a factory turbo motor/auto that already puts out the required power is the easier alternative especially when the radiator is going in the back and it doenst have to be engineered for road use. As for tyres Im quite happy with 33s. I have just finnished fabricating a reverse shackle kit for the front which should end up sitting lower than the standard set up I have, as I cut off all the factory mounts and run flatter springs with extra leaves. as for the rear with the eliptical set up. I have a trac bar for axle wrap but plan on improving on what I have. I also will be running another small atv winch above the rear diff to sit the arse down should I want it. Even at the height it is now, Im pretty happy with how it handles and the stability of it apon cornering at speed
Author:  christover1 [ Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sr20det/auto into winch truck
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Author:  Red89 [ Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sr20det/auto into winch truck
Perhaps try pming Niaz for ideas, they seem to be getting heaps of power out of their rally zooks in similar circumstances.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=17619
Author:  canberramav [ Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sr20det/auto into winch truck
GRPABT1 wrote:
For the effort involved in the engine swap if 200hp is your goal then I would turbo the G13B. Many GTi's are getting around boosted with 200hp and more, no road less travelled shit. Might be a little laggier than an SR20 but that will probably be mostly negated by the gearing and would help the transfer cope if you managed to get it to come on smoothly with a decent controller.

I've always thought your rig was a bit high and a bit under tyred though Chris, how does it handle round corners now with the extra unsprung mass of the lux diffs? I would be looking at fitting 35's and losing some spring hight if you're going to be adding more speed to the combo.



x2 on all of the above.

The G13b will bolt in. Minimal fabbing. Checkout Redlinegti for some turbo ideas. you will obviously need a different exhaust manifold than what they use. They go really well when they are boosted. An SR will take ALOT of time and effort.
Author:  Fatzook [ Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sr20det/auto into winch truck
canberramav wrote:
GRPABT1 wrote:
For the effort involved in the engine swap if 200hp is your goal then I would turbo the G13B. Many GTi's are getting around boosted with 200hp and more, no road less travelled shit. Might be a little laggier than an SR20 but that will probably be mostly negated by the gearing and would help the transfer cope if you managed to get it to come on smoothly with a decent controller.




The G13b will bolt in. Minimal fabbing. Checkout Redlinegti for some turbo ideas. you will obviously need a different exhaust manifold than what they use. They go really well when they are boosted. An SR will take ALOT of time and effort.



And what gearbox are you hoping to use to deliver 200hp to the wheels? Sure as fuck won't be a sierra box!

What can be done in a FWD car is irelevant. Simple fact is, 200HP in a sierra is a massive undertaking, and no matter which engine is chosen, the rest of the driveline will require similar thought and fabrication if the concept is to become a reality.
Author:  got_bar_work [ Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sr20det/auto into winch truck
I hope he's cage is welded to the chassis
It's going to be the only thing trying to stop that 200 hp twisting the Sierra chassis in half
Just turbo a 2.5
That way it bolts to the aw4 and vit transfer
Author:  canberramav [ Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sr20det/auto into winch truck
Fatzook wrote:
canberramav wrote:
GRPABT1 wrote:
For the effort involved in the engine swap if 200hp is your goal then I would turbo the G13B. Many GTi's are getting around boosted with 200hp and more, no road less travelled shit. Might be a little laggier than an SR20 but that will probably be mostly negated by the gearing and would help the transfer cope if you managed to get it to come on smoothly with a decent controller.




The G13b will bolt in. Minimal fabbing. Checkout Redlinegti for some turbo ideas. you will obviously need a different exhaust manifold than what they use. They go really well when they are boosted. An SR will take ALOT of time and effort.



And what gearbox are you hoping to use to deliver 200hp to the wheels? Sure as fuck won't be a sierra box!

What can be done in a FWD car is irelevant. Simple fact is, 200HP in a sierra is a massive undertaking, and no matter which engine is chosen, the rest of the driveline will require similar thought and fabrication if the concept is to become a reality.


Yes the 1.3 gearbox would be a weak point but he is only running 33's. Its not like the zook is going to see 200hp at every given second.
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sr20det/auto into winch truck
For those advocating that a turbo G13 is "easier"-

Fatzook wrote:
What can be done in a FWD car is irelevant.


This is enormously important. Getting a 1.3 to produce 200HP on a dyno, or for seconds at a time in an 800kg FWD (so very traction limited) car is one thing. Load it up with big tyres 4WD, a 1200KG car sit it axle deep in sticky mud and stand on it and you're going to get a different result.

500HP from a 4.0litre motor is 125hp/l
700hp from a 6.0litre motor is 117hp/l (and I bet there aren't really many genuine 700hp comp cars out there)

200hp from a 1.3litre motor is 154hp/l

That's an incredibly high specific output. Holding a motor together under that much load is going to be very hard and extremely expensive. You might do it if the rules favoured it - say cars over 1.6 litre had to carry additional weight, or weren't allowed boost, or something, but to compete an effectively "open" class I can't see the point. Also, off boost that motor is going to be a dog - that's not a problem with the 4.0 and 6.0 cars - they still have some capacity to work with.

I think you're on the right track looking at SR20/CA18. You need to find motors that produced the power you needed stock and can be assembled with a RWD gearbox. Ideally, choose a RWD gearbox than a readily have a transfer attached to it, should you have problems with the sierra transfer.

There's been a few SR cars built. The Atmo car in the photos Christover posted was quite good. It's a VERY big project though. The engine doesn't really want to fit in the hole. Brake M/C clearance was very tight. The auto length isn't a real problem and the auto is effectively the same as that used in patrols so it's plenty strong. That car had a 2" BL and the motor was very close to the bonnet, but with your car being SPOA you can run the motor lower.

Personally, I think I'd run a CA. Research I've done indicates they are a bit mechanically simpler and stronger in the valve train, and getting 200hp out of one is pretty easy with an SR20DET turbo. They are also much smaller and therefore easier to fit.

As an aside, and I'm sure you are aware of this, with almost three times stock power, axle location will become an issue. Spring wrap/bouncing/general looseness will become a much bigger issue than it is now.

Steve.
Author:  GRPABT1 [ Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sr20det/auto into winch truck
Competition will find the weak points though, but I believe the gearbox to be stronger than the transfer case from what I have seen but 200hp will be a problem most likely for both.

Fair enough Chris if that's your comfort zone it makes sense, be sure to post pics on the shackle reversal and stuff you've done. FWIW those SR20VE motors from the SSS pulsar's go bloody hard for an NA four banger, I'd chase up that model if you're set on the SR. I second Steve on the strength of a CA over an SR though, plenty of mates of mine that race the two and one particular very hypo CA18 has never blown up although countless SR's have.
Author:  Fatzook [ Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sr20det/auto into winch truck
canberramav wrote:
Fatzook wrote:
canberramav wrote:
GRPABT1 wrote:
For the effort involved in the engine swap if 200hp is your goal then I would turbo the G13B. Many GTi's are getting around boosted with 200hp and more, no road less travelled shit. Might be a little laggier than an SR20 but that will probably be mostly negated by the gearing and would help the transfer cope if you managed to get it to come on smoothly with a decent controller.




The G13b will bolt in. Minimal fabbing. Checkout Redlinegti for some turbo ideas. you will obviously need a different exhaust manifold than what they use. They go really well when they are boosted. An SR will take ALOT of time and effort.



And what gearbox are you hoping to use to deliver 200hp to the wheels? Sure as fuck won't be a sierra box!

What can be done in a FWD car is irelevant. Simple fact is, 200HP in a sierra is a massive undertaking, and no matter which engine is chosen, the rest of the driveline will require similar thought and fabrication if the concept is to become a reality.


Yes the 1.3 gearbox would be a weak point but he is only running 33's. Its not like the zook is going to see 200hp at every given second.



Thats a terrible way to think about it. Why have 200HP if you can't use ot for fear of busting your gearbox? ( and transfer for that matter )

Its a comp truck. It needs to be reliable, so the best approach is to engineer as many of the weak points out before you commence the build.

FYI I've worn out 2 sierra boxes (rebuilt with new bearings and synchros etc ) with just a G16B, 28's, and mostly city driving. They are a tiny, weak box.
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