auszookers.com
https://www.auszookers.com/forum/

Stronger Uni Joints
https://www.auszookers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=31728		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Brenno [ Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:15 am ]
Post subject:  Stronger Uni Joints
What are the options, NT uni joints, external clips.

Mine will last for about a year before the power finally causes some small movement in the cups, causing the needle rollers to drop out and then shes farked. I have never had a problem with snapping, binding or twisting the shaft.

Ive heard people talk about Koyo being crap and Toyo being good (or other way around), and that hardy spicer are good too.

I've currently just replaced my rear shaft unis with Hardy Spicers so hopefully all good for a while. Shaft angle is not an issue, its not dead straight but not far off it.

I dont want answers like - replace your engine with something less powerful, or 'I told you so, LOLROFLHARRIS' :roll:

I think they are doing quite a good job considering it has around 100kw more atw then standard, but would like to hear suggestion if you have any.

Would upgrading the whole shaft/uni knuckle to something stronger be an option?

Cheers
Author:  got_bar_work [ Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stronger Uni Joints
can u swap to wt flanges and mod some hilux shafts to fit
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stronger Uni Joints
^ this is the only option I can see.

PS I assume it's the rear shaft that goes first, at the Diff end? Just check that you aren't axle wrapping and that's overloading the uni due to really large angle changes under high load.

Steve.
Author:  Fatzook [ Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stronger Uni Joints
Hilux shafts.
Author:  Brenno [ Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stronger Uni Joints
Thanks for the input fellas,

Yes steve, it is the rear uni on the rear shaft that goes first, but the tcase end also gets flogged (but not as bad).

I don't think its axle wrapping, but I will do some testing with the GoPro mounted underneath and see what shows up.
Its got 7 leaves in the right pack and 6 in the left, so its got some strength. They are however, quite long (3 inches over standard) which could be causing wrap.

Will having a NT transfer case affect the ability to run hilux shafts (is the bolt pattern the same as WT, with just larger bolt sizing?
Author:  BlueSuzy [ Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stronger Uni Joints
How are your driveline angles? Running at high speed etc. Flanges are meant to be parallel with single uni's.

Otherwise,

Lux (front&rear), surf (f&r), coiled landcruisers(mustbehighpinion)(frontshaftsonly) are all WT pattern, M10 bolts, bigger uni's. Alot of different sizes avaliable, standard=good=easy to replace
The 88?ifssurf double cardon that i have is very close to zook pattern, but holes are out abit, zooktastic has redrilled one to suit wt.

And then, The only difference will be the centre locating holes. The zook transfer and diff flanges will have to be opened up alittle to suit the toyota gear. Very simple job, with a lathe though..

Whats the biggest shaft you can run in the rear with length? A hilux rear half shaft will be very close, they are normally 2 shafts bolted together, or an 80'series front also, bit longer, or 105 series bit longer again (10mm)
Author:  Fatzook [ Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stronger Uni Joints
BlueSuzy wrote:

Lux (front&rear), surf (f&r), coiled landcruisers(mustbehighpinion)(frontshaftsonly) are all WT pattern, M10 bolts, bigger uni's. Alot of different sizes avaliable, standard=good=easy to replace
The 88?ifssurf double cardon that i have is very close to zook pattern, but holes are out abit, zooktastic has redrilled one to suit wt. And they have FAR less angle of operation than the standard hilux uni joint!

And then, The only difference will be the centre locating holes. The zook transfer and diff flanges will have to be opened up alittle to suit the toyota gear. Very simple job, with a lathe though.. +1mm :wink:

Whats the biggest shaft you can run in the rear with length? A hilux rear half shaft will be very close, they are normally 2 shafts bolted together, or an 80'series front also, bit longer, or 105 series bit longer again (10mm) The rear section of the lux 2 piece will be too short for a LWB rear. It will need atleast 75mm added.



Sierra LWB rear at the top, Hilux 2 piece rear section at bottom.
Image
Author:  Brenno [ Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stronger Uni Joints
I have had my rear shaft shortened anyway so they might work. I will have a look at superdukis rear shaft as that is lux. Anyone know if having a nt transfer case with handbrake will affect anything?
Author:  Fatzook [ Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stronger Uni Joints
Brenno wrote:
I have had my rear shaft shortened anyway so they might work. I will have a look at superdukis rear shaft as that is lux. Anyone know if having a nt transfer case with handbrake will affect anything?


Yes. You will need to get the back of the drum machined for the larger spigot on the lux shaft, and possibly shorten the shaft. And obviuosly you will need to re-drill the drum for WT bolt pattern.
Author:  BlueSuzy [ Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stronger Uni Joints
Yes the double cardons have less angle operation, but it wont matter on a leaf zook.

I tried one fitted by hand, bolted up when i was flexing my chassis etc for clearances. The only time it will bind up is when my whole diff drops, if i belly out on something or on a 2post lift..A leaf zook will never drop this much, and thats with a transfer lift

Peter, It seems we have a different half shaft, My spline is the other way around. ;) (cant remeber what lux its off. ln106?dualcab?
Author:  Brenno [ Fri Apr 13, 2012 8:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stronger Uni Joints
Gwagensteve wrote:
^ this is the only option I can see.

PS I assume it's the rear shaft that goes first, at the Diff end? Just check that you aren't axle wrapping and that's overloading the uni due to really large angle changes under high load.

Steve.


Well I attached the go pro to the underside of the car and it looks like the diff pinion is tilting up and high load, once i get it on youboob I will upload it and ask for opinions :?
Author:  jdk81 [ Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stronger Uni Joints
^^ axle wrapping
Author:  alien [ Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stronger Uni Joints
sounds like its time for a trac bar Brenno =) i run hilux d/c at the tcase end of mine and sierra uni at the pinion end (front and rear) - so the sierra uni is the weak point in the system... the d/c joints are now about 6 years old and in perfect working order, i've gone through 2 rear uni's and 1 front uni in that time. Before i ran my trac bars i could feel the rear uni tearing itself apart though - mega crazy spring wrap.
Author:  Brenno [ Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stronger Uni Joints
Well here is the Gopro video....seems like a bit of wrap. How can I overcome this? Load leaves?
Author:  Jazzor [ Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stronger Uni Joints
I'm surprised how much the pinion angle moves up and down!, you don't think about that when your driving in the car :). And those universal joints do a good job considering all that, hitting bumps like at the start looks pretty hard on them too.

This is a pic LRO has on their site:
Image
here:
http://www.lowrangeoffroad.com/index.ph ... shims.html

Which i assume is correct.

I bought an angle finder recently to try and see what my rear one is doing, as mine wears out quite fast too, i have the figures jotted down in the shed. I bought a hardy spicer uni a few months ago when my last one wore out as i was told they were better too haha, and i only drive my zook every few weekends so they should last a lot longer for me too, there is no movement yet fyi :P.

I will double check my angle figures at home again but i will probably try a 4o or 6o wedge in the rear and maybe even the front to make the angles better, and when i think of some other LRO stuff to buy :P. Just watching your vid though has made me think that when driving the angle changes so the static angle is not accurate... hrmm it gives me something to think about, might even be worth me doing this with my gopro and watching what the springs/pinion angle is doing.

When the turbo gets going that's a pretty awesome angle :)
Author:  atari4x4 [ Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stronger Uni Joints
pinion angle looks way wrong :? should be like the 2nd example in the pic above
Author:  SierraDan [ Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stronger Uni Joints
Yeah wouldnt the top one cause the uni's to do nothing and?
Author:  JrZook [ Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stronger Uni Joints
atari4x4 wrote:
pinion angle looks way wrong :? should be like the 2nd example in the pic above
\

I'm also inclined to think there seems to be something up with that pinion angle.

As for spring wrap you can try adding a thicker half leaf above the main leaf on the shackle side or add a half leaf under the pack on the fixed hanger side.
Author:  Brenno [ Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stronger Uni Joints
atari4x4 wrote:
pinion angle looks way wrong :? should be like the 2nd example in the pic above



*Note* I didnt change the pinion angle, just the transfer case, which does sit about an inch lower than normal so that could be where the problem is. I did this so the jackshaft was perfectly straight and because the different engine/gearbox combo. BTW it doesnt vibrate at all. I should try and get a pic of the the angle and alignment of the flanges so give a better idea.
Author:  BlueSuzy [ Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stronger Uni Joints
spring perch tapers might be another fix
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stronger Uni Joints
Fawk :shock: I watched 1 minute of that and it was enough. you have EPIC axle wrap problems and that's what's killing unis. That didn't look like a very hard launch either. Not sure if there were harder/tarmac launches elsewhere in the video but I think it's proved my point in any case.

Get the uni angles right and then it's traction bar time.

Bear in mind an effective traction bar increases the load on the gears/transfer case. All that spring wrap is softening the hit the gears are seeing. With nowhere for it to go, it hits the gears much harder.

Steve.
Author:  skyman [ Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stronger Uni Joints
With axle wrap like that, I am surprised you didn't see vibrations on medium to hard launches.
I would expect minor, to major vibes depending on the amount of go pedal used to take off.

Do you get any vibes at all, say right about the time you should shift into 2nd or third?

It's nice to see how this all works under real world conditions, and to be able to watch axle wrap in action.
Thanks for posting the vids.
Author:  Brenno [ Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stronger Uni Joints
skyman wrote:
With axle wrap like that, I am surprised you didn't see vibrations on medium to hard launches.
I would expect minor, to major vibes depending on the amount of go pedal used to take off.

Do you get any vibes at all, say right about the time you should shift into 2nd or third?

It's nice to see how this all works under real world conditions, and to be able to watch axle wrap in action.
Thanks for posting the vids.



I am suprised it doesnt vibe at all either. I had no idea that was going on underneath! I will do a bit more research and take some more photos for your opinions.

Thanks to all that have posted so far.
Author:  31zook [ Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stronger Uni Joints
My Lwb had the same pinion angle and no vibrations. I didn't have half as much power tho...
Author:  JrZook [ Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stronger Uni Joints
Gwagensteve wrote:
Bear in mind an effective traction bar increases the load on the gears/transfer case
Steve.

Hey Gman! Have you ever tried or seen anyone try half leafs to minimize wrap as opposed to a track rod?
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stronger Uni Joints
Sort of. Toyota did it with the factory turbo diesel 60 series from memory on the front. A very long time ago, an ex member of the club sort of tried it with a SPOA car a kind of asymmetrical pack with a very, very heavy flat overload leaf to counter wrap- They broke, and when they were working they broke the axle housing. :shock:

Here's a photo of the springs when I pulled them out.

Image

/tangent - I pulled these springs to put the car back to SPUA That was eight years ago, and the springs I put in there were OME's from my 1986 LWB... which I reckon are from 1986.

They're still in that car.... which is this car:

Image

Which goes some way to explain how freakin' hard SPOA is on springs.
Author:  got_bar_work [ Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stronger Uni Joints
I think it's time to coil the rear
Page 1 of 1 All times are UTC + 9:30 hours
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
https://www.phpbb.com/