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Who's interested in a 1.9TD conversion?
https://www.auszookers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=31418		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  Dieselsuzi [ Sat Mar 24, 2012 7:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Who's interested in a 1.9TD conversion?
Alrighty auszookers, my question is this: is there anyone out there who wants to convert their Sierra to a turbo diesel? I've got a plan to convert mine in the near future from a samurai and want to know numbers of people who might want it done aswell. If there is anyone who wants to talk about it PM me or email me at steve@bakes.com.au. My intentions are to source the parts, fit it all, engineer it and have you drive out my gate a happy person. Prices are a little fluid at this stage depending on responses but at this stage that will be confirmed when I get numbers.

Bakes
Author:  Rusho [ Sat Mar 24, 2012 8:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's interested in a 1.9TD conversion?
Where do you live? What engine are you using??
Author:  want33s [ Sat Mar 24, 2012 8:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's interested in a 1.9TD conversion?
Where do you plan on putting the booster and master cylinder in these conversions?

1.9 diesel does not work in RHD.
Author:  neofitou [ Sat Mar 24, 2012 8:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's interested in a 1.9TD conversion?
Unboosted master could go backwards on the inside of the firewall tilton etc are off the shelf units, I'm not sure if it's legal but they are used in rally cars... So maybe?
Author:  Dieselsuzi [ Sat Mar 24, 2012 8:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's interested in a 1.9TD conversion?
G'day rusho, I'm in Townsville. The plan is to use the samurai XUD9 engine with the Bosch pump. This will make the conversion much easier AND cheaper. There are other options available but that is the most sensible at this stage. Once that samurai framework is in place, there are options such as the XUD11. But all is most dependent on samurai base framework such as engine bay components. without them in place, the conversion is very difficult to engineer. Other issues such as master cylinder etc are being addressed with Suzuki UK, with their RHD samurai but t this stage, when my front cut arrives, other engineering issues will be addressed

Bakes
Author:  Rusho [ Sat Mar 24, 2012 8:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's interested in a 1.9TD conversion?
Be good to see how this turns out 8)
Author:  Dieselsuzi [ Sat Mar 24, 2012 8:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's interested in a 1.9TD conversion?
Rusho wrote:
Be good to see how this turns out 8)


Haha, yes it will.. :-) a TDi zook really turns me on..lol
Author:  atari4x4 [ Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's interested in a 1.9TD conversion?
can't see you selling many as most suzuki owners are tightarses. :lol:
Author:  want33s [ Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's interested in a 1.9TD conversion?
/\ /\ X a lot Gus.


I'd like to see a good diesel conversion and I'm very interested to know how it will match the gearing and rev range of a 1.3 or 1.6 petrol.
Author:  GRPABT1 [ Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's interested in a 1.9TD conversion?
Can't see it being viable in a zoom, one for the tight arse factor, two for the fact it's a 1000kg car and a diesel motor is going to vastly affect the weight distribution compared to the other petrol versions on the market. And lastly because it's just not needed, you don't need stump pulling diesel torque in a light weight zook, the market is much to small I think.
Author:  SierraDan [ Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's interested in a 1.9TD conversion?
cant imagine a 1.9 diesel from a small VW being massively heavy enough to make the light weight zook useless.
Author:  Fatzook [ Sat Mar 24, 2012 10:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's interested in a 1.9TD conversion?
SierraDan wrote:
cant imagine a 1.9 diesel from a small VW being massively heavy enough to make the light weight zook useless.


Useless is a bit dramatic. It would however make a notable difference to handling.
Author:  Dieselsuzi [ Sat Mar 24, 2012 10:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's interested in a 1.9TD conversion?


I'm not quite confident handling would be an issue, the engine is nowhere near overkill. Noting these came from Suzuki as a standard vehicle in the overseas market, the specs are quite within anything we drive here. As for useless, well, the under powered piece of #%&$ that's in mine and every other one offered in the AUS market gives me a migrain.
Author:  sogone [ Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's interested in a 1.9TD conversion?
Sofa king do it. Not everyone knows everything. Prove the hard hats wrong.
Author:  atari4x4 [ Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's interested in a 1.9TD conversion?
i fail to see the attraction to diesel engines unless it's farm or earthmoving/heavy equipment, sure the open exhaust & hearing the turbo spool is cool, but that's about it & when you can pick up something like this for less than a grand i don't see it being viable. viewtopic.php?f=7&t=31424

i'm guessing even paying a workshop to do a G16b conversion will be 1/2 the price of what you're proposing & it's not a common engine unlike the G16 if something does shit itself.

i bet you'll get a heap of dreamers putting their hands up, then when it comes down to it you'll be on your own.
Author:  SierraDan [ Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's interested in a 1.9TD conversion?
Fatzook wrote:
SierraDan wrote:
cant imagine a 1.9 diesel from a small VW being massively heavy enough to make the light weight zook useless.


Useless is a bit dramatic. It would however make a notable difference to handling.

Granted "useless" was an overstatement.

Away from road driven zooks. How would you expect it's performance in a purely off road car? Where the motor could be shifted back and front diff moved considerably forward?

Diesel with a 4 or 3 speed auto and the assorted transfer and diff ratio combos?
Author:  Rhinoman [ Sun Mar 25, 2012 1:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's interested in a 1.9TD conversion?
Dieselsuzi wrote:
Other issues such as master cylinder etc are being addressed with Suzuki UK, with their RHD samurai but t this stage, when my front cut arrives, other engineering issues will be addressed

Bakes



We never had a RHD Samurai diesel over here, only Vitaras and GVs, AFAIK the only diesel SJs were LHD.
Author:  twitchy [ Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's interested in a 1.9TD conversion?
Just a side note to those who say why, Diseasels play better in water for one thing & you can fuel up from your local fish & chip shop...
I think it could be a viable thing, if you also look at a fitting possibility for the Vits as well!! Keep us informed champ I am keen to see how it goes.
Author:  GRPABT1 [ Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's interested in a 1.9TD conversion?
Before we all jump to conclusions, what are the specifics of the intended motor? Like how much does it weigh and what are the power and torque specs? Also how much will the motors alone cost? Also, are they efficient diesels? The cost of diesel vs petrol means you would want a pretty fuel efficient motor to compete with an injected 4cyl in a 1 tonne car.
Author:  canberramav [ Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's interested in a 1.9TD conversion?
If this conversion could be done well it would be great. I could see someone like shep for example having the need for a diesel.

I doubt the weight would make it handle too badly if you could really notice it at all.
Author:  abclarke [ Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's interested in a 1.9TD conversion?
atari4x4 wrote:
i fail to see the attraction to diesel engines unless it's farm or earthmoving/heavy equipment, sure the open exhaust & hearing the turbo spool is cool


Yeah thats what im wondering, why go with a diesel over a G16?
Author:  skyman [ Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's interested in a 1.9TD conversion?
While not really common, there are a lot of diesel install done in the us. Acme adapters sells the kit. You can look up "acme adapter install Samurai" on google and probably pull up a few.

Shuduck documented an VW install on pirate as well, here is the clicky http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthre ... highlight=

The guys who really love them seem to be the guys who do a lot of commuting. If geared right they can pull 40 Mpg out of them. The guys who are wanting to wheel them only seem to get in the 19-20Mpg (about what a modded 1.6 Sierra gets here). I don't know if I would be happy with one on the trail, maybe for freeway commuting though.

I guess the thing that draws me to the little Sierra is the light weight, high revving "zippy-ness" about the whole rig. Suzuki's have been that way since the early two strokes, they love to sing at high RPM, and we love to make them sing :D

There is something about Zipping around the trail, a taking climbs with the throttle to the floor, and the motor happily ripping along at 5500 Rpm that always puts a smile on my face. :mrgreen:

I just don't know if I could feel that way about a diesel, especially on muddy terrain. I do have to admit the "water-proofness" of a diesel, cheap/free fuel, and the exhaust smelling like fish&chips kinda makes me curious.
Author:  joel [ Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's interested in a 1.9TD conversion?
abclarke wrote:
atari4x4 wrote:
i fail to see the attraction to diesel engines unless it's farm or earthmoving/heavy equipment, sure the open exhaust & hearing the turbo spool is cool


Yeah thats what im wondering, why go with a diesel over a G16?

heres a few reasons i would choose deisel.
up here it gets wet, really wet, deisels likes water more than petty

awesome torque curve

usually very fuel economic

can throw a lot more kms on a deisel than a petrol

great for towing or carrying heavy loads


they just keep going and going.


the weight factor wouldnt be that much of an issue, its a little 1.9 not a 4.2 out of a cruiser, i want to see it done, i reckon it will knock the socks off the nay sayers, wish the deisel jimnys were sold here.
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's interested in a 1.9TD conversion?
atari4x4 wrote:
i bet you'll get a heap of dreamers putting their hands up, then when it comes down to it you'll be on your own.


So much truth here.

In any case, I'll play.

Can you be specific about how much better this might be than a G16B? because it's certainly going to be a lot more expensive and a whole lot more work.

XUD 9 in Samurai spec: 46Kw, 120Nm
G16B: 65Kw, 120Nm (rough figures)

My guess is that a diesel conversion is going to come out at least two, probably three times the cost of a G16 conversion.

I can only come up with one fuel consumption figure of "5-7 litres/100km" which sounds a bit phoney to me, but maybe it's possible in a lightly driven, stock car, even so, it's going to take masses of KM - I don't know - 150,000km? to pay back the difference in conversion cost based on fuel consumption alone.

Some other points to consider - as this was a Santana product, not Suzuki Japan, It's unclear whether the gearbox is unique to the Diesel, but my guess is that it is, considering the 1.3 gearboxes don't have removable bell housings. I also saw a post indicating these gearboxes only last 30-40K (!) Which is not surprising if it's a 1.3 based gearbox with much more low down torque and torque pulsing going through it off idle.

How do you propose to sort the gearing? Stock sierras, as you are aware, run 3500rpm @ 100km/h. Obvoiusly, you'd want to be under 3K @ 100 with a dies, and that's going to be a challenge.

I love noises a diesel makes, but I think a sierra is a terrible application for a diesel.

I don't see the water crossing/electrics issue as relevant. The least reliable electrical components in a car in relation to water are the starter and alternator, and they're both there in a Diesel too.

Steve.
Author:  atari4x4 [ Sun Mar 25, 2012 10:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's interested in a 1.9TD conversion?
joel wrote:
great for towing or carrying heavy loads.


lol it's not a mack truck... it's a sierra, with a 250kg payload that would be even less if the diesel was at all heavier. :wink:
Author:  stockman [ Sun Mar 25, 2012 10:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's interested in a 1.9TD conversion?
As Steve mentioned the diesel Sierra's (in Europe) were the work of the Spanish company Santana. As far as I know they all used either the Renault F18 Diesel motor or the XUD9 TD not the VW.

Quote:
To meet the diesel car market, especially in Europe, Santana made a deal with French auto makers to equip their propeller models of origin samurai PSA (Peugeot-Renault), resulting in the emergence in 1999 of the Suzuki Samurai 1.9 TD liters XUD Peugeot engine series, equipped with diesel injection pump and turbocharger KKK brand that delivers an output of 62hp and torque to 4.300rpm torque 11.8kg / m. The consumptions are quite content, so are the accelerations, which is one of the most popular versions of Samurai engine oil, since in 1995 Suzuki had created a version for Japan only oil with a Mazda home motor.


Suzuki Santana Samurai 1.9TD .-

Peugeot Motor XUD 1.905cc TD .-
Indirect Injection.
Bore / Stroke: 83 x 88mm.
Power: 62HP@4.300rpm.
Torque: 11.8Kgm.2500rpm.
Vel.Máxima: 130km / h.
0-100km / h: 20.4 Sec

Image


For the rest of the vehicle, this shows some improvement. as borrowed from outside the Japanese versions of plastic bumpers and a new mask similar to the Japanese, with parking and cornering lights included, but a bit more square and the smaller headlamps. Unlike the Asian model, this keeps the spring packs on four wheels, but shows an interior with new dashboard design, lead-colored, much more colorful and comfortable than previous versions and available in both short wheelbase versions as in LWB pickup.

Because the countries of Europe anti-pollution legislation about to get increasingly serious and strict, Suzuki decided to replace the 2001 version with a new configuration TD atmospheric origin and thereby raise Renault meet Euro III standards, 1.870cc this time, direct fuel injection and producing 64hp at 4500 turns, but with improved torque 12.3 kgm around. It maintains the style of the vehicle without major changes.

Suzuki Samurai Santana 1.9 diesel .-

Motor Renault F18 1.870cc
Direct injection.
Bore / Stroke: 80 x 93mm.
Power: 64HP@4.500rpm.
Torque: 12.3Kgm.2250rpm.
Vel.Máxima: 130km / h.
0-100km / h: 19.2 Sec

Image


Suzuki Samurai 1.9 TD


The speed of transmission in this version is a 5-speed plus reverse.


Santana closed in 2011 and took the English version of the website with them. Not that there was much on there in regards to zooks.
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's interested in a 1.9TD conversion?
I think it's important to recognise that these diesels weren't used because of their awesomeness compared to petrol. Diesel is taxed at a different rate to petrol in europe, so it's much, much cheaper to run a diesel car than a petrol car. In italy. for example, approximately 50% of new vehicle registrations were diesel through the period Santana were producing these.

As I have said before, I think it's easy to look at aftermarket tuned TD42's and brand-new high output diesels and wish that was possible in a sierra. The reality, of an old-school diesel that only just matches a G13's power and offers 20% more torque, is going to be quite disappointing. Sure, it is possible to up the boost, screw in a heap of fuel, and vastly improve those figures, but then you're on your own in terms of longevity, and the durability of the rest of the driveline. I think a diesel sierra with 200+Nm might be quite effective.... but how long is a sierra driveline going to last at 200Nm? How long is the motor going to last delivering almost 80% over designed torque?

My argument with diesels is that they have to produce LOTS more torque than a petrol equivalent to make up for the lack of useable rev range and low HP. They also really need an auto to get them to perform. These engines offer neither. I'd suggest they would be way inferior to a G16B comparing manual to manual..... let alone comparing to a G16B with an AW-4 behind it.

Note that I think there is an error in that (translated?) page. I don't believe there was ever a Japanese market diesel sierra. I think only the vitara was offered in Japan with a diesel, and it was the RF mazda hand grenade. (would you like a head gasket with that oil change sir?)

RF engined, and Renault(?) engined vitaras/GV's are common in NZ AFAIK. CJ contemplated building a diesel vitara over here and drove a couple in NZ to get a feel for the motors. He wasn't impressed enough to pursue the project.

Putting a Mazda RF/AW-4 into a sierra should be possible but it would be a major, major job.

Steve.
Author:  primejo07 [ Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's interested in a 1.9TD conversion?
If this isn't too pricey, and is proven to work, then I would definately be up for it. My Sierra needs a new motor and money isn't to much of an issue. Very keen to see how this goes
Author:  Fatzook [ Fri Mar 30, 2012 6:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's interested in a 1.9TD conversion?
primejo07 wrote:
If this isn't too pricey, and is proven to work, then I would definately be up for it. My Sierra needs a new motor and money isn't to much of an issue. Very keen to see how this goes



Isn't too pricey? Well if a 1.6 EFI conversion costs about $3k, this would cost $6k.
Author:  GRPABT1 [ Fri Mar 30, 2012 6:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's interested in a 1.9TD conversion?
joel wrote:
awesome torque curve

.


Really? Any old school deisel gives all and then nothing, I wouldn't call that awesome. I like the fact a zook motor gives more and more the more you punish it.
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