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Jimny M16a Engine Swap Over Idling
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Author:  mud_muncher [ Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Jimny M16a Engine Swap Over Idling
Hi Everyone,

Yesterday i just finished putting a M16A out of a 2003 liana in My NON VVTI Jimny. It runs great and is a massive improvment on the M13.

I have one issue in that when the engine is first turned on it idles ok (around 1000rpm) But shortly after it warms up it will Idle around 1900rpm and when you are slowing down it wont let the engine revs drop below 1500rpm. :?

Has anyone experienced this before and are the any fixes? All connectors seem to be on and all Vacuum lines are tight. I have used the Liana Intake and Injectors with the Jimny Fuel rail and M13A Computer.

Thanks for any help
Author:  Fatzook [ Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimny M16a Engine Swap Over Idling
My guess would be that the Liana TPS is sending a different signal to the ECU than what the jimny one would.

Can you run the Jimny intake manifold with the liana fuel rail/ injectors?
Author:  royce [ Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimny M16a Engine Swap Over Idling
TPS doesnt control idle

have a look at this thread from about here for a similar problem
http://www.auszookers.com/index.php?nam ... m18#512806

The theory is the Idle control on the throttle body allow more air through than the ecu believes it is so it idles higher, I assume the ecu doesnt have enough feedback to trim it better

try unplugging the idle control off the throttle body to be sure thats what it is, your idle should drop back to base idle, if not its a leak or something.
Author:  neofitou [ Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimny M16a Engine Swap Over Idling
Bout time for a build thread somewhere Harley?
Author:  Bugsta [ Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimny M16a Engine Swap Over Idling
mud_muncher. I plan to do a swap with this engine myself. Glad to see someone has done it!
Author:  mud_muncher [ Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimny M16a Engine Swap Over Idling
royce wrote:
try unplugging the idle control off the throttle body to be sure thats what it is, your idle should drop back to base idle, if not its a leak or something.


Yep, welldone! It did drop back to about 900rpm but is now a little rough as i have removed the plug. Which parts can i swap over off the jimny intake to bring it back to standard?
Author:  mud_muncher [ Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimny M16a Engine Swap Over Idling
neofitou wrote:
Bout time for a build thread somewhere Harley?


Ha Neo,

I Hardly had the time and skill to do the swap let alone a build thread! On royces link there is a good thread on the M18A (which is pretty much the same)

I chose the M16A as it is NON VVTI and the M13A comp can run it with no wiring, it cost me $600 with 50k on it and the fact that I am running 34s on stock Difs so didnt want to increase torque too much like the M18 would.

It drives so much better now, less gear changes on the road and power to keep up with traffic. No power house just nicer. I also prob gained a lot more as when i took my old M13A out I noticed it had BOTH Motor mounts broken (who knows how long for ) 8O :oops: . I replaced them with VL mounts which are 50% beefeir then the Jim ones.
Author:  royce [ Thu Dec 29, 2011 10:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimny M16a Engine Swap Over Idling
mud_muncher wrote:
royce wrote:
try unplugging the idle control off the throttle body to be sure thats what it is, your idle should drop back to base idle, if not its a leak or something.


Yep, welldone! It did drop back to about 900rpm but is now a little rough as i have removed the plug. Which parts can i swap over off the jimny intake to bring it back to standard?


See if the whole throttle body will swap over
Author:  zuk85 [ Thu Dec 29, 2011 10:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimny M16a Engine Swap Over Idling
any pics of the VL mounts? easy fit and clearances all good??
Author:  mud_muncher [ Fri Dec 30, 2011 12:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimny M16a Engine Swap Over Idling
royce wrote:
mud_muncher wrote:
royce wrote:
try unplugging the idle control off the throttle body to be sure thats what it is, your idle should drop back to base idle, if not its a leak or something.


Yep, welldone! It did drop back to about 900rpm but is now a little rough as i have removed the plug. Which parts can i swap over off the jimny intake to bring it back to standard?


See if the whole throttle body will swap over


Thanks Royce your a champ mate, a PITA problem turned into a 20min fix! I owe you a beer! Gotta love last minute fix before some ultra hard wheelin!
Author:  dank [ Fri Dec 30, 2011 4:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimny M16a Engine Swap Over Idling
oh yeah good work fellas! wheelin here we come!
Author:  neofitou [ Fri Dec 30, 2011 7:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimny M16a Engine Swap Over Idling
I forgot to ask you, where did you get your Axels and cvs from?
Dgtuning or somewhere else?
Author:  mendelmax [ Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimny M16a Engine Swap Over Idling
Hi Guys.

I'm new to the forum, so welcome everybody!

I'm recently thinking on doing similar swap, so I thought I'll dig out this thread. I did some searching, found some similar topics, but had to choose one to start conversation, so I picked this one :)

My Jimny is a 2006 with VVT M13A.

I plan to swap it for 2006-2007 VVT M16A.

The question now is- mud_muncher, did you also swap M13A for M16A, or have you had some other engine, like G13B to start with?
Will everything bolt right up with this swap? I know that engine blocks are the same, but how about the crankshaft splines and all the rest?

I plan to leave the stock M13A intake, so I guess I won't be having any idle problems. I know I will probably loose some peak HP, but with the long intake runners I hope for great mid-range torque instead. Since my engine is also VVT I guess it will work with VVT M16A. I am aware that I will probably have to go for ecu remapping (chiptuning).

Any thoughts on my swap, any ideas what to be aware of? I am somewhat experienced with engine work (did few strokers on jeep 4.0 engines), but never did anything with Suzuki, so any info or comments appreciated :)
Author:  dank [ Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimny M16a Engine Swap Over Idling
Tell you what, build us a stroker for our comp Jeep XJ and he'll tell you everything you need to know :P ;)

Jokes aside, he got the M16 block and bolted the M13 intake and exhaust onto it, also swapped over the cooling system bits from the M13 as the M16 was east-west motor, sump and pickup were swapped over as well i'm pretty sure, upgraded engine mounts to VL commodore rubber, all the loom plugs in the M13 swapped over easy to the M16 block, thats about it. possibly injectors as well? not sure..
Author:  mendelmax [ Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimny M16a Engine Swap Over Idling
If I'll build it, will you come to Europe to pick it up? :p

I forgot to add during registration, I'm from Poland, it's central Europe :)

As for strokers, it's actually pretty easy to do it when you don't care about every HP you could possibly get. First we did it on a very tight budget, did not gain any HP (it was just as stock, 160RWHP on a dyno), but the torque gain was very impressive. The rig was so much nicer to run. And this is what convinced me for a M16A swap, since it's basically a factory M13A stroker ;)
Author:  dank [ Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimny M16a Engine Swap Over Idling
hahaha, bloody cold over there recently I've heard!

Did you run the stock ECU for the stroker? change injectors or anything else? Mud-Muncher will tell you that the driveability is greatly improved with the M16.
Author:  squibby [ Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimny M16a Engine Swap Over Idling
mendelmax wrote:
Hi Guys.

I'm new to the forum, so welcome everybody!

I'm recently thinking on doing similar swap, so I thought I'll dig out this thread. I did some searching, found some similar topics, but had to choose one to start conversation, so I picked this one :)

My Jimny is a 2006 with VVT M13A.

I plan to swap it for 2006-2007 VVT M16A.

The question now is- mud_muncher, did you also swap M13A for M16A, or have you had some other engine, like G13B to start with?
Will everything bolt right up with this swap? I know that engine blocks are the same, but how about the crankshaft splines and all the rest?

I plan to leave the stock M13A intake, so I guess I won't be having any idle problems. I know I will probably loose some peak HP, but with the long intake runners I hope for great mid-range torque instead. Since my engine is also VVT I guess it will work with VVT M16A. I am aware that I will probably have to go for ecu remapping (chiptuning).

Any thoughts on my swap, any ideas what to be aware of? I am somewhat experienced with engine work (did few strokers on jeep 4.0 engines), but never did anything with Suzuki, so any info or comments appreciated :)


http://auszookers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=24999&hilit=black+jimny+trekker&start=40

See my guide in above thread. I did M18A, but M16A will be the same. All the best!
Author:  mendelmax [ Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimny M16a Engine Swap Over Idling
dank, yup, arctic cold here. Last week we had -30*C, and for the first time in my life, the water pipes in my house walls have frozen ;)

squibby, thank you VERY much for your link, I'm going to read it carefully!

As for our 4.6 (I guess we're doing a bit offtopic here ;) ), we used stock ECU, and changed the injectors- since the stock ones were 39PSI and delivered 21lbs flow, we changed them for later ones, meant for 49PSI and 22.5lbs (not sure about the exact numbers, it was over a year ago). We also used the fuel pressure regulator which IIRC is now set at 55PSI. But all this was only for vehicle warm-up, so we didn't care much. When we reach the operating temperature we switch to LPG and use sequential propane injection with custom dyno-made map. Because the LPG has octane rating over 100 we run it at high compressio (this forces us to use 98octane gasoline too). Unfortunately, we have stock valvetrain which limits our top-end power severely. This is going to be improved when we'll find some funds. So far, our motivation is smaller, since Jeep runs totally fine and doesn't lack power offroad.

Here's the LPG dyno chart. Keep in mind that it's a rig with snorkel, which limits top power. Look at the torque curve, it's fantastic for offroad.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/35/hamownialpg.jpg/
Author:  mud_muncher [ Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimny M16a Engine Swap Over Idling
mendelmax wrote:
Hi Guys.

I'm new to the forum, so welcome everybody!

I'm recently thinking on doing similar swap, so I thought I'll dig out this thread. I did some searching, found some similar topics, but had to choose one to start conversation, so I picked this one :)

My Jimny is a 2006 with VVT M13A.

I plan to swap it for 2006-2007 VVT M16A.

The question now is- mud_muncher, did you also swap M13A for M16A, or have you had some other engine, like G13B to start with?
Will everything bolt right up with this swap? I know that engine blocks are the same, but how about the crankshaft splines and all the rest?

I plan to leave the stock M13A intake, so I guess I won't be having any idle problems. I know I will probably loose some peak HP, but with the long intake runners I hope for great mid-range torque instead. Since my engine is also VVT I guess it will work with VVT M16A. I am aware that I will probably have to go for ecu remapping (chiptuning).

Any thoughts on my swap, any ideas what to be aware of? I am somewhat experienced with engine work (did few strokers on jeep 4.0 engines), but never did anything with Suzuki, so any info or comments appreciated :)


Hi Mendel and welcome! It is a very easy swap and pretty much everything is bolt over. As squibby posted there is a complete guide to how it is done. I used the M16A as I have A NON - VVTi jimny to save on wiring computers ect, does the 1.6 even come out with VVTI??? Since you have a VVTI jimny you are lucky enough to have the M18 Option which has a fair bit more power again compared to the M16a, a few people on this site have done this and they love it! If you can rebuild engines this would be a day job for you.
Author:  squibby [ Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimny M16a Engine Swap Over Idling
I think the M16 did come in VVT in some countries, maybe in the newer Suzuki Vitaras. Essentially it doesn't matter what size of M-series engine you use, but just if you use a VVT ECU, then you should use a VVT engine and NON-VVT ECU with a NON-VVT Engine.

There are some clever people on here who have fitted matching ECU's (and immobiliser AND key AND modified the wiring or replaced the wiring loom) but the joy in this conversion is that if you aren't bothered you can use the Jimny ECU to run the larger engine without any problems worth mentioning. the fuelling can be a little lean or a little rich - 'little' being the key word here, and the power is down from what it could be, but it's clean and tidy and so far the M13A ECU hasn't buggered any bigger engines that we know of yet.
Author:  royce [ Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimny M16a Engine Swap Over Idling
In Australia the M16VVT is a no go as the ECU and sensor configuration is a lot different, I think we only got that engine in the Swift Sport

The popular engines are the M15VVT from the base swift and M18VVT from the Liana
Author:  mendelmax [ Thu Feb 09, 2012 6:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimny M16a Engine Swap Over Idling
Yeah, the M16A is fitted with VVT on 3 door Grand Vitara here in Poland. Very popular engine, easy to find. On the other hand, I have never seen M18 here, but maybe wasn't looking carefully enough. What model had this engine? In squibby's post I found a mention about Liana, anything else?

As for VVT, I must also figure out if the timing change takes place in the same moment (or similar at least) in both engines, so that the M13 ECU wouldn't screw up the M16 power band by switching timing in wrong moment.

I'm contemplating on sending it for ECU remap to fix all the problems with AFR and so on, but I'm not sure whether the guys that are doing this will be able to correct the VVT timing also. Here it cost about 500 euro, which is reasonable price for individual dyno tuning I suppose, but still, 500 more than not doing it at all ;)
Author:  krunchi [ Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimny M16a Engine Swap Over Idling
Is there any one in brisbane willing to do a engine swap on my Jimny?
I just dont have a engine crane and have'nt done it before, happy to pay decent rates too!
PM Me
Author:  zukenutter [ Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimny M16a Engine Swap Over Idling
krunchi wrote:
Is there any one in brisbane willing to do a engine swap on my Jimny?
I just dont have a engine crane and have'nt done it before, happy to pay decent rates too!
PM Me



Any takers yet?

Something that may make yours a little more interesting is the auto trans. I'm sure someone will probably know if there are any extra hiccups that may arise.
Author:  mendelmax [ Sun Feb 12, 2012 8:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimny M16a Engine Swap Over Idling
I bet, that since the torque after swap is higher at every rpm ranges, the shift points won't be a concern, though they may not be as effective as they should, leading to some power loss compared to manual box. And since all the engine sensors remain from the old setup, I guess there shouldn't be any problem in this matter, and the change pattern would be exactly the same as it was previously.
Author:  squibby [ Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimny M16a Engine Swap Over Idling
mendelmax wrote:

I'm contemplating on sending it for ECU remap to fix all the problems with AFR and so on, but I'm not sure whether the guys that are doing this will be able to correct the VVT timing also. Here it cost about 500 euro, which is reasonable price for individual dyno tuning I suppose, but still, 500 more than not doing it at all ;)



Great Idea Mendelmax,

In my part of Australia there is no-one capable of doing this, but I know in Europe it's pretty commonplace for most makes of car, I'm just not sure about Suzuki. If you get this sorted a few of us will be very interested.
Author:  krunchi [ Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimny M16a Engine Swap Over Idling
There is a suzuki work shop on moss street that does the conversion for 1.5 and 1.8
They have done a few, estimation on price is very high tho and its an exchange motor type deal.
Some thing like $2500 for the 1.5 install and upwards for the 1.8
Author:  zukenutter [ Tue Feb 14, 2012 3:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimny M16a Engine Swap Over Idling
I hope that price includes compliancing
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