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Sierra 1.0 litre 4 speed to 5 speed conversion.
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Author:  Benchai [ Sat Dec 17, 2011 3:01 am ]
Post subject:  Sierra 1.0 litre 4 speed to 5 speed conversion.
I've been lucky enough to get a type 3(I think that's how they're called) 4pd and a donor 5sp. I've assembled the hybrid box, although when I nip up the extension housing the shafts tighten up, so I'm sorry for doubting you Kas, I think the bearing housing for the bottom shaft needs to be recessed deeper as you said :oops: .
That being done, then comes fitting. Comparing the hybrid to an original 1L 4sp, I note the following:
Gear Stick sits 50mm further back Annoying but easy fix
Needs different mount, and sits back 40mm Annoying but easy fix
This is where I need some enlightenment
The input shaft is 25mm shorter in the hybrid than the original 4sp. Is this going to be a problem?
The output shaft is larger diameter than the original, and as the extension housing sits back 40mm further, this means some fancy jack shaft work. The distance from the back of the seal to the flange on the transfer case is 360mm. Therefore with the new box I will need a jackshaft with a 5sp front yoke, to suit a distance of 320mm. Anyone done this before can shed some light? Anyone got a 5sp jack shaft? Anyone got tonight's winning lotto numbers?
Author:  mrw82 [ Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 4sp to 5sp Conversion
use a standard 1.3 5 speed jack shaft. But you'll have to do a half and half uni to the 1 litre transfer flange. Or put a 1.3 flange on your transfer case.
When i get home i'll post a link to my 5 speed build on the nbs forum.
A 1.3 gearstick boot and surround fits perfectly to cover the bigger hole, but i'm sure you've made your own gearstick boot.
Author:  mrw82 [ Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 4sp to 5sp Conversion
here's the link: http://nbs4x4club.com/forum/index.php?topic=12545.0

you have to log in to see pics.

image linking isn't happenning for me tonight but what I done with the gearbox mount on mine was a couple of transfer case lift bushes from just cruisin and a bit of 8mm flat bar with a few holes drilled in it.

let me know if you need any more info, happy to help.



I run the 5 speed gearbox, 4.55 LJ diff gears and S1 transfer gears (same high range as 1 litre standard). It is a great combination. I can comfortably sit on 100km/h by GPS (110 on the speedo)
with this setup, doing 100km/h by GPS the 1 litre is purring along in 5th gear at 4000rpm, right where it needs to be.
Author:  Benchai [ Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 4sp to 5sp Conversion
Wow, that was a great post, pics loaded no probs. Very comprehensive and answered many of my questions, though it posed a few more:
On the Maruti box, as with the S3 box of mine, there are two switches, one is obviously the reverse switch, what is the other for?
You mentioned the different gearing. The donor 5sp had water damage, so I have used the lower shaft from the 5sp, and taken the gears and synchros etc off the 4sp shaft to fit to the 5sp shaft. They spin without binding up or grating; do you think this is proof enough or should I take it apart and measure/count gears to make sure they're compatible?
I like how you did your mount, what exactly are "just cruisin" mounts? Not sure if my local Repco people would understand that :crazy:
The only issue left, which I hope to resolve this morning, is why it's binding up when I tighten the extension housing. The bearing housing is machined a bit more in the 5sp, so I'll follow Kas's memory and try relieving there.
Thanks again
Author:  steak_knife [ Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 4sp to 5sp Conversion
http://auszookers.com/index.php?name=Fo ... ic&t=15518

:helloo:
Author:  Benchai [ Sun Dec 18, 2011 1:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 4sp to 5sp Conversion
Thanks Stekkie :helloo:
Any reason I couldn't use shockie rubbers with a olt through them like my transfer case uses?
Author:  steak_knife [ Sun Dec 18, 2011 1:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 4sp to 5sp Conversion
Can't see em lasting long, but worth a try...
Author:  Benchai [ Sun Dec 18, 2011 4:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 4sp to 5sp Conversion
Have revised my thinking. The 4sp has an extension with a thread for a bolt, whereas the 5sp has 4 holes. I think I'll make an extension the same as the 4sp which will bolt on the 5sp and then I can use the standard mount. Problem solved
Author:  Benchai [ Sun Dec 18, 2011 4:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 4sp to 5sp Conversion
Found out why it's binding up too. The reverse idler gear, if that's what it's called, has a retaining washer to hold the gear on the shaft. This has a bent bit to retain the retaining washer on the shaft, and this needs to sit in a recess in the casting. Mine had rotated, thereby binding up on the gear creating the problem. All the gears in the 4sp are smaller than the 5sp, so although they weren't binding up, there was alot of backlash, particularly in 1st, so I'm really grateful for your thread mrw82 as it prompted me to check it out. Now to pull it apart and put the right gears in..........
Author:  mrw82 [ Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 4sp to 5sp Conversion
any other questions just ask here or pm me mate, happy to help wherever I can.
Author:  Benchai [ Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 4sp to 5sp Conversion
mrw82 wrote:
any other questions just ask here or pm me mate, happy to help wherever I can.

Thanks bud
Author:  Benchai [ Fri Dec 30, 2011 7:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 4sp to 5sp Conversion
I've had this box in and out, sadly not third time lucky. First time around Ripco had given me the wrong spigot bearing, and whereas I was expecting a thin ball bearing to come out, I didn't see the skinny little needle roller pop out. So I decided to do a dummy fit to fabricate the rear mount and cut holes etc. Then after I had the bastard bolted up I found the old spigot bearing, so out it came and back in with the old bearing(cleaned and regreased). All fitted smoothly thanks to Mark's excellent post. Test drive, and quiet all round till 5th, where it won't stay in gear :x . Out it comes again, and what it needed was relieving for the split pin and spring on the 5th/reverse selector. Back in and 5th works a treat. Took it for a highway run and now it is noisy in neutral when I take my foot off the clutch. Isn't noisy when running through the gears, so I'm not sure if I've damaged a bearing when I've reassembled it, or It may need some more oil because I spilt a fair bit when refilling. As adding oil is easiest that's what I'll do first. Might start looking for another 5sp for spares........Bloody hell it's good to drive though. For those who think the mighty 1L doesn't have the grunt to drive it in 5th :thefinger:
Author:  mrw82 [ Fri Dec 30, 2011 10:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 4sp to 5sp Conversion
Go the mighty little one litres!!

Lower first gear ratio is nice too hey, but the bigger gap to second takes a bit of getting used to. I found it to be one of the best / most rewarding mods I've done.
Author:  mrw82 [ Fri Dec 30, 2011 10:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 4sp to 5sp Conversion
If you let it idle in gear with the transfer in neutral is the noise still there
Author:  Benchai [ Sat Dec 31, 2011 3:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 4sp to 5sp Conversion
mrw82 wrote:
If you let it idle in gear with the transfer in neutral is the noise still there

I'll try that on Monday when I get home. I'm going to hit it with some Nulon 70 and clean oil too. It's not that bad, doesnt vibrate at all - it's just that there is noise where with the 4sp it was quiet.

Forgot to mention in answer to one of your questions I'm running standard gearing both transfer and diffs.
Author:  neofitou [ Sun Jan 01, 2012 10:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 4sp to 5sp Conversion
hillbilly wrote:
....and i thought the only way to make a 1litre do a 100 , was on a trailer


After a few tweaks to my old 1L. I used to run out of speedo all the time (>125km/h)
Home made tacho used to sit on 6400 on the freeway.

I siezed that engine..
Author:  Benchai [ Mon Jan 02, 2012 6:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 4sp to 5sp Conversion
neofitou wrote:
hillbilly wrote:
....and i thought the only way to make a 1litre do a 100 , was on a trailer


After a few tweaks to my old 1L. I used to run out of speedo all the time (>125km/h)
Home made tacho used to sit on 6400 on the freeway.

I siezed that engine..


They're only little guys but they sure do their best :P

Mark, there is no difference to the noise if the transfer is in neutral or not. Will try good oil and additive tomorrow and see if that makes any difference :D
Author:  mrw82 [ Mon Jan 02, 2012 6:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 4sp to 5sp Conversion
I just reread your post about the noise and you say it only does it with foot off the clutch in neutral, It's most likely just the clutch thrust bearing, don't worry about it, mine does it also, has done for ages. Just change it when you replace the clutch, it'll be fine until then.
Author:  Benchai [ Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 4sp to 5sp Conversion
I replaced the thrust bearing, shouldn't be that. Will see what the Nulon does, but I've found a new donor box to keep as a spare. If it gets any worse I can fix it in a day :D Just got to work out how to get it home from Burpengary :?
Author:  want33s [ Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 4sp to 5sp Conversion
Noise without clutch depressed IS NOT the throwout bearing.

It is the input shaft bearing.
Author:  Benchai [ Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 4sp to 5sp Conversion
want33s wrote:
Noise without clutch depressed IS NOT the throwout bearing.

It is the input shaft bearing.

Absolutely correct. I had slightly butchered the new bearing when I installed it first time. The other problem I had, which probably compounded the input shaft, was that the shorter input shaft, by measurement, wasn't going into the needle roller spigot bearing. I ultimately reamed out the hole in the centre of the flywheel and installed 2 18x10x5 roller bearings. Made it harder to put back in given the tight clearances with the bigger box and the early 1l tunnel, but the result was well worth it :D
Author:  want33s [ Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 4sp to 5sp Conversion
Benchai wrote:
installed 2 18x10x5 roller bearings.


Why two roller bearings? Did you need the extra to pick up the input shaft?
I wouldn't normally recommend this but maybe a bronze or brass spigot bush would be better.
Author:  Benchai [ Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sierra 1.0 litre 4 speed to 5 speed conversion.
Just because the only way to get a standard roller was 18 x 10 x 5 and I thought 5mm thick would maybe be too small, so I used two to spread the load. Thought about a bronze bush, could have made one but time was of the essence and getting the raw material would have taken too long.
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