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| Author: | orangeshannon [ Sun Sep 11, 2011 6:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | suzuki sand driving |
hi i have a mate how thinks that my sierra or vitara wont be any good at dessert driving what do you think would a standard sierra be any good at dessert driving? |
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| Author: | atari4x4 [ Sun Sep 11, 2011 6:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: suzuki sand driving |
IMO fuel range will be the biggest issue, drop your tyre pressure & it will go anywhere. |
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| Author: | Gwagensteve [ Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: suzuki sand driving |
You haven't asked the same question in your title vs your post. Suzukis are terrific in sand. That doesn't make them good desert cars though. Desert travel demands long touring range, so fuel capacity and total load capacity become limiting factors. It's almost impossible to pack a suzuki for a desert trip and keep it under GVM. Exceeding GVM and long distances on desert roads results in lots of wear and tear, high fuel consumption, and breakage. It's much easier to pack a large car and keep it under GVM, and with more power and torque, and a smaller % change in weight from laden to unladen, a larger car feels less burdened by the required load than a smaller car. Effectively, putting the same load in each car will have twice the negative effect on a suzuki, because they are 1/2 the weight dry of a big car. Pick the right sand driving and you'll own a big car. Pick the wrong sand driving and they'll be towing you back to civilisation. As per usual, it's horses for courses. Steve. |
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| Author: | orangeshannon [ Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: suzuki sand driving |
i've never done sand or dessert driving befor but i would trust my sierra out there more than my vit as its cheaper to run and more reliable. like you said i just have to pick my lines right and i should be allright im not going into large desserts just a little one for now just to get the feel of it |
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| Author: | Gwagensteve [ Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: suzuki sand driving |
I never mentioned picking lines. There's no challenge in the terrain for a sierra or vitara in desert driving, you'll die of boredom before you have a problem with capability. It's just that you can't carry enough gear and fuel. If you are going to the little desert, big desert, or border track area in Vic/SA I'd be taking the vitara - you'll be bored either way, but in the vitara at least you will be comfortable and bored. I don't there is is any real difference in running costs or reliability - both cars are simple and cheap. The beauty of desert travel is in the camping. I'd be taking the car I can pack more gear in too. Steve. |
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| Author: | orangeshannon [ Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: suzuki sand driving |
yeh i would like to take my vit but its not running properly at the moment my little sierra is alot quicker and cheaper to run i get about 10L of fuel per hundred k's and my vit is currently doing about 14.5L of fuel per hundred k's |
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| Author: | Gwagensteve [ Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: suzuki sand driving |
Well that's your answer - you have a broken vitara. fox the vitara and then go on your trip. I'd have to be desperate to drive a sierra the 6 hours of highway it takes to get to anything resembling "desert" in Victoria though. As an aside, Vic desert country can be quite fun if it rains, or if you are in a car that handles. Steve. |
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| Author: | orangeshannon [ Sun Sep 11, 2011 8:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: suzuki sand driving |
i was planing on taking my time to get up there stop off at places and just cruise were in no rush |
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| Author: | matt91112011 [ Sun Sep 11, 2011 8:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: suzuki sand driving |
Steve are you saying a Vitara would be useless on a long touring trip? Even with a long range tank and all the necessary servicing done pre trip? Like take my Vitara for example. It's very well maintained, got a lockright, ARB bar, 9000lbs winch, snorkel, dual batteries, and Simex MT's, now all that gear probably adds around 200kg, we'll pretend for this scenario I have an 85-90L long range tank, so add another 50kg once filled. Surely with only a couple of swags, a fridge, food, BEER, clothes, a table, and spares it wouldn't affect the vehicle that badly? We'd only be at like 500kg, maybe 600kg. Would it really affect the Vitara that badly? I'm planning on doing big trips in mine. Cheers Matty |
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| Author: | atari4x4 [ Sun Sep 11, 2011 8:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: suzuki sand driving |
i'd have no drama's doing a simpson run in my Vitara, fuel would be my only issue. |
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| Author: | Mike57 [ Sun Sep 11, 2011 8:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: suzuki sand driving |
If you are doing a desert trip like the Simpson then you should be doing that along with a few other vehicles. My mates wanted me to come on a Simpson crossing with them later this year. I worked out that if they were prepared to carry a jerry can each for me then there would be no problem, this is in addition to the two cans that I would carry (oh and also if I could use their fridges so I didn't have to carry one). Unleaded fuel is readily available in nearly all areas but many places only have 91 RON so the fuel consumption in the Jimny at least would be higher than normal. You need to make allowance for that. Mt Dare station said they would get 98 RON in for me if I needed it and gave them notice. It was not so much the fuel situation that bothers me though. I am more concerned about the heavily corrugated roads on the way there and how the Jimny would hold together on the rough stuff. In the end the Simpson trip is not going ahead because we can't agree on the timing but I am planning to travel the Oodnadatta track later this year. |
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| Author: | stocker [ Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: suzuki sand driving |
matt91112011 wrote: We'd only be at like 500kg, maybe 600kg. Would it really affect the Vitara that badly? I'm planning on doing big trips in mine. Cheers Matty Matey Im a firm believer that you can make a vehicle do what you want it to do... If there is a will, you will make a way... and i am sure you will do your big trips, so this isn't a personal dig at you or anything... But theres some proof in the pudding so to speak in what you just said. You are talking about Loading a vehicle that weighs 1.1Tonne (ringing wet) up with Half its weight again in Gear... they really just weren't designed for the application you are talking about. |
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| Author: | orangeshannon [ Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: suzuki sand driving |
yeh the amount for extra (food, water, fuel clothing ect) weights abit and gets heavier when it gets wet so when i go out i would most likly be going with a mate thats got a 60 series cruiser so i said to him that i will take the things that i can get away with in mine and you can carry the rest i only gota lil car  but i'll make up for it when i have to pulll you out of a bog again
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| Author: | Gwagensteve [ Sun Sep 11, 2011 10:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: suzuki sand driving |
matt91112011 wrote: We'd only be at like 500kg, maybe 600kg.
Would it really affect the Vitara that badly? I'm planning on doing big trips in mine. Cheers Matty Does that include your own weight? You didn't mention that. Payload for a vitara is about 450KG. It's easy to see you could be 50% over that payload. You're also running bigger tyres, stiffer springs and struts, more angle on every uni and CV in the car.... A body lift that's increasing leverage on the body mounts, a dual battery that's increasing load on the inner guard... Imagine how much more load the wheelbearings, hubs, brakes and every bolt and bracket in the car are experiencing. Every component in the car is already being stressed harder than stock already, and you're adding 50% on top of the design payload. Then you are going to hit corrugated roads for hours on end. Is a vitara useless for distance travel? No. It's just far from ideal. It might not break, but it's going to get pretty loose if it doesn't. I think you'd be better with a stock LWB vitara with some quality shocks than a modified SWB. Vitaras are light duty vehicles. That's cool - so are sierras. Spend some time under a patrol or cruiser and see how much heavier everything is under there. Steve. |
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| Author: | mrlj2u [ Sun Sep 11, 2011 10:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: suzuki sand driving |
If you think about what you really need and only take that you should be right. Back in the late eighties we crossed the simpson and two people in our group had suzukis one lj80 and one lj81. Back then the simpsom was a challenge, now the biggest challenge is avoiding having a head on. |
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| Author: | matt91112011 [ Sun Sep 11, 2011 10:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: suzuki sand driving |
Nah that doesn't include vehicle weight. I do see what your saying partly, but i just don't think the stress will be as great as your saying. I'm just thinking, I run to a from work everyday in my Vitara and I work on housing estates everyday, which involves mud, rough roads, ruts, boggy spots, rocks, sand, and any other condition you can think of throwing a 4WD into. So i'm in 4WD quite often, plus there is also the play on the weekends, all with no issues. I'm gentle on my car compared to most people i'll admit, I rather crawl up something than smash my way up it bouncing off the limiter, but i'm sure this isn't why my Vit has been so reliable. My point is though, it's driven thousands of kilometers and varying terrain all with regular maintanence and general vehicle care, with no issues. So why would it be any different on a long trip? Just my opinion Matty |
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| Author: | TryHard [ Mon Sep 12, 2011 1:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: suzuki sand driving |
i really do see where Steve is coming on this one sure it can be done if u have a fuel truck behind you to carry all the gear you might need or will need simply cant be done easy for example if i was packing for the simpson i would rather have stuff i might need then not take it at all with a vit or sierra i really cant see anyone packing enuf . to put it simply sure u can tour and do desert driving in a zook but u will be over loaded crammed uncomfy etc and be useing a shit load of fuel id pref to do it im something slightly bigger also a over loaded car will be alot more likely to have brakeages if you can get your mates big car to carry all your fuel and shit maby then it might be ok but eh |
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| Author: | orangeshannon [ Mon Sep 12, 2011 1:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: suzuki sand driving |
i will be takin my sierra put the swag on the roof, fridge in the back and waht ever else i needs drinks and whatnot, i have donw some pretty hard steep stuff in my sierra befor when it was fully loaded which was good in a way cause it didnt want to float in some river crossing we did  its not going to be a long trip just a few days proberly only go through about 80 liters or so of fuel so its not to bad
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| Author: | squibby [ Mon Sep 12, 2011 3:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: suzuki sand driving |
mrlj2u wrote: If you think about what you really need and only take that you should be right. Back in the late eighties we crossed the simpson and two people in our group had suzukis one lj80 and one lj81. Back then the simpsom was a challenge, now the biggest challenge is avoiding having a head on.
Awesome, ^^ I mean, do you really need a fridge? really?? you need a tent, about 40litres of water for a couple of days would be plenty, lets say you wanted a range of 1000kms, you'd need one full tank in the car when you set off and another 80litres. So you've put 120litres in the back in three large jerry cans, 1 water, two fuel that's about filled up a jimny/sierra etc. Pack the roof with all your tents, cloths, sleeping bag. Put a little stove and a few cans of food and you're good to go. Enough for a weekend in the desert and you won't really be stressing the car much more then having a pair of fatties sat in the back. |
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| Author: | harvs [ Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: suzuki sand driving |
Maybe slightly off topic, but where actually would you put jerries in a zook? The idea of having 80L of a fluid that has a flash point of around -38C sitting in the back area of a wagon wouldn't exactly be my idea of crash worthy. |
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| Author: | ninjamoses [ Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: suzuki sand driving |
We carried 60 litres (40 of fuel, 20 of water) on the roofrack in stubby jerry cans on my SWB Vitara when we did our Pilbara trip. If you are in a SWB you will soon become good friends with the roofrack if you plan on any decent trips away, they are pretty much a necessity. That was good for around 550 - 650km between fill ups depending on the terrain (or more importantly - the wind direction ).
I reckon that is about the limit you'd want to carry in/on the car once you add all the other shit you would want to take. If you need to carry more fuel than that a small trailer would be the go me thinks. Or a bigger car... 
For a weekend away though you are laughing. Makes me want to go camping now... |
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| Author: | Jackson [ Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: suzuki sand driving |
harvs wrote: Maybe slightly off topic, but where actually would you put jerries in a zook? The idea of having 80L of a fluid that has a flash point of around -38C sitting in the back area of a wagon wouldn't exactly be my idea of crash worthy.
Seeing there isn't a lighter inside a jerry can I wouldn't worry... I would be more worried about that electric fuel pump inside your fuel tank 
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| Author: | SSSIERA [ Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: suzuki sand driving |
harvs wrote: Maybe slightly off topic, but where actually would you put jerries in a zook? The idea of having 80L of a fluid that has a flash point of around -38C sitting in the back area of a wagon wouldn't exactly be my idea of crash worthy.
hahaha its a zook. fuel or no fuel. its still not crash worthy! |
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| Author: | luke3411 [ Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: suzuki sand driving |
I'm loving the banter guys lol. I really want to do the trip from Darwin to Gove next dry season in my swb Vitara and all the stuff you guys are mentioning is stuff I was considering. The only thing I was actually considering taking extra was bags that I can fill with sand to make sure I dont float away in the river crossings. I've seen vid's on youtube of the goyder river crossing and it's SCARY if you dont pick the right line and dont go at the right time of year so yeah I thought sand bags would be the way to go cause apart from fishing gear, small tent, swag, eski and about 4 jerry's of fuel I wouldn't be taking much weight at all. Not compared to my fat ass and 3 other whales sitting in it anyway lol. Huge corrugations down there from what other people have told me when they have driven it even to the point that it has destroyed cars. I reckon desert driving would be great fun in a vitara but if it's to far between fuel stops then yes You might have to shout your mate a carton for carrying all that extra fuel. Just sucks having that tiny little fuel tank. |
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