[Mirko]

Hi! I have a big jimny issue and since I couldn't find any useful answer on Croatian forums, (where I live) I thought I might look here. Sorry about my english, but hope you'll be able to understand. Now about my problem... Jimny was the car I iwanted so badly for a while and November 2013 I bought a new jimny (2013). At first I admired that car, but now, with this unresolved issue... I don't know anymore what to say. Well, let me describe. While driving, suddenly a grinding noise starts and it seams like my jimny is about to fall apart. I had a car about 3 weeks when this happened the first time. Previous to this I was off road (using 4x4 just for a short part of road) and just returned on the city road (2x4), driving about 50 km/h. Next time this happened car was about 2 months old. On the highway, at speed of 120 km/h. Ever since this happens once or twice a month. Mysterious terrible grinding noise, can't even say for sure where it comes from. It is so loud that I could not judge. It seamed it was somewhehre in the area of front wheels. Sometimes it seams like metal grinding, other time it seamed to me it was rubber-grinding noise. I drove about 2 miles before it mysteriously stops. Noise disappeared by itself (first time). Next time I stopped an engine. The moment I started an engine again, the noise was gone. In the mean time I was told I could stop it by swiching 4x4 shortly on and off. So, third time I stopped the car, with an engine running, than switched 4x4 for a short while. Grinding disappeared. Found out there are others with similar issue, but not with a new car as I have. However, there are others with this grinding noise, and I was told this could be locking hubs issue. But no advice about the solution. Any clue what this could be about and how to resolve it?
I do have a warranty, but my dealer was of no use since this happens only occasionaly. I have an intention to visit him soon again but first I'd like to find some answers on my own. I have to drive about 400 km to the dealer and I do not want to waste my time or money and get no help of him. Any idea?
Thanks and best regards from Croatia. Mirko.

[Jezza86]

driving in a straight line at 40kph, select 4H
when you reach 60 KPH select 2H

you will hear 2 loud clunks as the front hubs properly disengage. if you haven't been driving in a straight line, or the road is cambered, you may her a bang as the transmission bind releases through the hub instead of the clutch in the transfer case.

at first i thought it is likely a blockage in the vacuum lines or the solenoid preventing the manifold vacuum from pulling the inner spring loaded dog clutch fully out in the hub.

now i suspect the order /speed of the FWD clutch operation in the transfer case is at fault. sometimes, parked after driving in 2wd i find my front drive shaft is engaged, at the transfer case, which shouldn't happen.

a set of AVM manual hubs may be in order to replace the auto hubs.

[Mirko]

Thanks, Jezza86.
I''ll try doing as you said and switch 4wd -2wd at 40-60 kmh.
But, was it the same long/loud grinding with your jimny as I have with mine?
I hear lots of people are replacing auto vacuum hubs with manuals. That is not an option with me, since I have a warranty. But, I am not sure I would like doing that anyway. It's hard to belive Japanese engineered vacuum hubs so poorly that we have to go to manuals.
I have had Hyundai galloper for a fairly long time. Off-roading and not really sparing it of a heavy duty. No probs ever! Now with a half a year old jimny and very few undemanding off-roads, I can say I am very disappointed and regreting I have sold my old reliable galloper. Not sure Suzuki is able to find a cause and fix this issue while under warranty.
Regards, Mirko.

[Mike57]

Hi Mirko

The noise you are describing is very unusual. I have not seen this reported on this forum before. It might help if you could record in on your phone and put it on YouTube so that we can hear it.

Some more information might help:
Have you made any modifications to the Jimny
Does this noise happen in any gear or normally 4th gear
Does it occur at any particular speed or can it be at any speed

My first idea is that this could be the vacuum hubs as suggested by Jezza but it might also be the transfer case. Switching in and out of 4WD will activate both the hubs and the transfer case solenoids. The grinding noise could only occur if either one was only partly activated. I wonder if it is possible that the solenoids in the transfer case are not installed correctly or not adjusted properly or if there is an electrical problem which is causing them to activate when they should not be.

Some checks you might do yourself under the car are:
Make sure that nothing is possibly coming into contact with the drive shafts such as something loose
Check that all the vacuum hoses to the front hubs are properly connected.
Look at the solenoids on the transfer case to check that all wires are properly connected.
Look for anything external that might look like it has been rubbing for example on the tyres.

One more thought, the transfer case chain can make a bad grinding noise if it is loose. That will normally only happen on an old car.

I think the best thing is to record the noise and share it with us. See if you can do that.


Mike

[offroadjack]

It can be a stuck locking hub after having it in 4wd.
Next time you disengage 4wd try reversing for a few meters after you have selected 2wd.
You should hear a clicking noise which meand they've released.
Manual hubs..auto hubs, different people and so are the opinions,
I've never had any dramas with my auto hubs (vitara) and wouldn't change them.
Like you said, Japanese engineering is pretty reliable but hey, it's usually an issue with the vacuum pump and not the hubs.

[offroadjack]

Have to add that I forgot to reverse ones and ended up with what you describe as that grinding noise, makes you pull over real damn quick !

[Jezza86]

Ill take a video tomorrow. Its been doing it every day lately. Not allways a constant grinding. Sometimes its more on off but the way mirko describes it is say its the same thing. I am thinking wiring or computer related as ive had both my vvt auto and vvt manual cases in the car when it has happened

[Jezza86]

Another point to note, when I broke both front hub vaccume lines puting in the bodylift I didnt get a flashing light like I should have

[jake84]

That's interesting.


Work to live, don't live to work.

[zukenutter]

Sounds like the hubs to me.

[Mirko]

No modifications yet. Or I'd waste a warranty. All I've done to my Jimny was a tow bar installation and t-case guard plate mounting. Not much to do with any particular gear or speed. Happened under different conditions: first time, by 2wd on city road (at 50-60 km/h), shortly after being off-road. Next time I drove back home from my work. Than, once on the highway at speed of 120 km/h. Everything else seamed to be fine. Tried braking (in the time of this grinding noise) - no problem. Clutch was just fine. Changing gears-working ok. No flashing lights on the dashboard. No problems with steering wheel, and no shaking. Don't know what else to say. Everything seamed fine, but the noise was that loud that I thought I was a waste in the garbage truck. At first I couldn't say where this was coming from - at first I thought it was T-case, but I was suggested this could be the vacuum hubs and next time this happens I should try switching briefly between 4wd and 2wd. I tried doing that and very next moment this grinding was gone. This made me belive I have problems with vacuum hubes, but I agree with you about "only partly activated" eather one of them. As you say, it is possible that the solenoids in the transfer case are not installed correctly or not adjusted properly. Noticed one more thing - when at first and second gear, or at reversing, I can hear some bumping - just like unadjusted transmission or, maybe, U-joint is not properly adjusted and there is some empty space. (Hope my croatian-english explanation is understandable). This bumping I have permanently and I thought it has nothing to do with this occasional grinding noise. And about eventual electrical problem that is causing vacuum hubes to activate when they should not be - I don't know. No flashing lights, no alert about electrical issues. But, as I am new jimny owner it is hard to tell., (Previous to Suzuki I had Hyundai Galloper), but I have noticed my Jimny is tough on steering wheel and I still can't find an optimal grade of a preassure to the clutch.

[Jezza86]

Tomorrow I will put my left auto hub on the right hand side, and the right on the left. That will tell us more as mine makes these noises every day.

[Mirko]

Jezza, do you think that this switch could solve your problem?
And one more thing, as Mike asked about some additional informations.

My previous experience with the dealer wasn't to my satisfaction. He has never heared of similar situation, no complaints ever etc. Seamed there is nothing wrong with my jimny, even if there is. I wasn't very enthusiastic abot second trip to an ignorant dealer. So I started my private online investigation hoping to hear what this could be about and how to solve this problem. Few days ago I called the dealer again. He said nothing but that he has never heared of this and that if something was wrong, than the sound should be persistant, not only occasional. Than I made a phonecall to another suzuki authorised service telling him about my problem. He asked what was my chassis number. When I told him the number, he was astonished that my dealer did not invite me to bring my car since he was ordered so from suzuki. There is some manufacturer's error on the steering wheel that should be replaced. He said this could affect locking hubs, but he was not sure. I was told to bring my car to him on June 16th, but yesterday I was told there are no parts in Suzuki Japan and I have to wait. Strange, isn't it?

[Mike57]

Mirko

The recall is described here. http://www.caradvice.com.au/285747/suzu ... -affected/

It was also discussed on this forum. http://www.auszookers.com/forum/viewtop ... lit=recall

However, this issue does not seem to be related to the front hubs. It could be the cause of the grinding noise though but I am not sure. I got the impression that this was a front panhard rod bolt that needed to be replaced? If that bolt came lose then it would cause a steering vibration or the "death wobble" but not a grinding noise. Perhaps someone who had this recall fix done can comment.

It sounds like the second dealer is the one you should go to anyway!

I think it would still be useful for you to make a recording of the sound and share it on this site as this will help a lot with identifying the problem.

Mike

[Mirko]

Thanks, Mike. I'll have a look at this links you've suggested.
I don't know about recording. It happens so suddenly and it is hard to be prepared. But, I'll try.

Best regards,
Mirko.

[Jezza86]

Actually a loose panhard lets the diff shake left and right which theoretically could shake a hub into a poor position. Its also interesting that this noise occours at 50kph, the lower limit of normal death wobble reports.

[Jezza86]

This sound anything like your noise?http://soundcloud.com/jeremy-koenig-2/noise-from-transfer-or-hubs

[Jezza86]

Today I swaped the left and right hubs with no change. I still think the noise is coming from either my front left hub which means its vaccuume related.
Allso toying with the idea that its somehow the front driveshaft or the dog clutch semi engaged

[Mike57]

Mirko

Does this sound familiar? viewtopic.php?f=5&t=46624&p=827852#p827852

Jezza

That sounds more like a pulsating sound than a grinding sound. Yours suggests to me that something is rubbing on the drive shaft? Hard to say though.

[Mirko]

Gledajte videozapis "Bad Drive Shaft Sound Jeep (Maybe Your Problem) …" na usluzi YouTube - Bad Drive Shaft Sound Jeep (Maybe Your Problem) …: http://youtu.be/nJdwEe60KYEo,
Or this one: YouTube - t-case problem: http://youtu.be/q8fmwVQ3hHo
And nothing of Mike's sounds.
So, I guess it is not a t-case or U-joint in my case.
What I have is more like grinding rubber to a rubber and slowly transforming into metal to a metal rubbing.
It happens after a short drive, mostly after a short distance driving with a short stop. And after turning on an engine again, it happens. That one time on a highway, I was only shortly driving after a coffee brake.
My noise is loud, but not the like knocking sound or rattling . It is rubbing and grinding sort of noise.

[Mirko]

Sorry, not Mike's. Nothing like Jezza suggested with http://soundcloud.com/jeremy-koenig-2/n ... er-or-hubs.
Saw this post from my250sd (user name) on thedieselstop.com ("vibration/grinding noise in the front hub area") who said he has solved his grinding problem by "changing the switch that controls the vac".

[Mirko]

I am very confused. As I was suggested to switch between 4wd and 2wd (and grinding stops) I was convinced it is locking hube issue.
But, as I had a good look to all sorts of videos on You Tube, I was sure that mine wasn't the sound of hubs failure or broken t-case.
There are somethings I noticed and tested (while grindining):
1. no problems with locking hubes engadgement. Works fine, normal knocking sound when dismissed. Switched between 2wd and 4wd - everything is fine.
2. No problems braking
3. No problems with gear shift
4. No problems with steering wheel, and no shivering
5. Grinding happens only in 2wd (up to now)
6. Grinding was gone as soon as I switched briefly to 4wd.
Now I'm thinking (not being sure about)... could this be something about vacuum?
Since I have a brand new car, is it possible that on the first sight everything seams to be fine, but there is small, invisible manufacturing ommision that one cannot see?

[Mirko]

As I mentioned my second issue, (that I can't say has something incommon with this grinding issue), there is a clicking /banging ( not very loud, but easy to hear in any condition) I'd like to say my observations.
1. It is persistant, (happens daily)
2. Happens in 1st and 2nd gear, by reversing and while steering suddenly to a sharp left angle or sharp right angle.
3. On start and stop
4. When an engine is off and I try swinging the car.
5. Happens somewhere on the rear side.

[Mirko]

Would an unadjusted chain in t-box produce this clicking when driving in 1sr and 2nd gear, and everything else, as described above?

[zukenutter]

I think that you've been given lots of suggestions but nobody here can be definite without seeing your car in person. I'd suggest that the clicking is just coil movement.

Chase your dealer to fix the problems. It's new and if you start pulling it apart your warranty will be void

[Jezza86]

so, this morning a mate and i figured out its not the hubs, or the vac (which appears to be working fine)

this just leaves me with the dog clutch.
on the noise i put up, i have had it make a continuous grinding noise previously. in that recording it comes and goes, but if you listen to it when its there, its the same noise.
the only reason i can think it could come and go is if its the sinchro and dog clutch vibrating forward on the shaft causing partial engagement of the front shaft, which isn't spinning.
as soon as the engine is started the front hubs unlock (with loss of vacuum they fail to a locked state).

[Jezza86]

anyone have a 06+ VVT electronic transfer exploded diagram and pinout?

[zukenutter]

Sounds like all the reasons I dumped the auto stuff for.

Sorry I don't have an exploded diagram.

[Mike57]

Mirko

This is the noise that a transfer case chain makes when it is stretched.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIKq-ihpzQI

It will make this sound when accelerating and not when at cruising speed and mostly 1st and 2nd gear when starring off from being stopped.

Mike

[Mirko]

Thanks again, Mike! Nothing like that in my case. Anyway, this second problem of mine is not a big deal. I guess, as it is possible to hear it all the time, the dealer can solve this problem. What warries me is this grinding that is hard to detect.