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| Shackle angle, springs and ride quality https://www.auszookers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=22185 |
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| Author: | rick1970 [ Sun May 22, 2011 7:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Shackle angle, springs and ride quality |
Fitted a set of OME rear springs yesterday. HD springs , seems to have two load leaves, one longer than the other. I removed the longer one (second from the bottom) and fitted them with the shackles i had, 90mm c-c. Ride is somewhat firmer than i hoped for and rear sits 50mm higher than it was. Shackles are around 10' from vertical. With the rear now sitting so high, i changed the front shackles (same 90mm) to a set of 110mm ones i had. It has std LJ rear springs (4 leaves, no load leaf) in the front with front mount moved 30mm forward, chassis extension and 30mm bumpstop spacers. With 90mm shackles, the front angle was around 50' from vertical, worked well offroad and maybe just a touch soft onroad, steered well. Going to the 110mm shackles raised it a bit and made the steering shit and loose. The 110mm shackles themselves are crap, fairly flimsy, worn in the pins and flex noticable when ramped up on a rock to get the front end working. I'm guessing some better shackles should help with the steering. I have pins made up at work to make new shackles, just need to work out a length. Will a shorter (std length) shackle on the rear, which i guess should increase the angle slightly, have any effect on the ride quality? Idealy i would like to lower the rear around 25mm, so i may have to remove another leaf, likely the next leaf up (1st curved one) to acheive this. Am i better running the short or long load leaf? ATM i'm running the short leaf. I have a short leaf that i may fit to the front that will raise it a touch and go back to the 90mm shackle. I took this out before as the U bolts were not quite long enough to use them safely (have replacement bolts now). I was reasonable happy with the ride quality and height before changing the rear springs, only did it as one of the mains were bent, had no full length second spring and some of the leaves were worn. Cheers Rick |
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| Author: | SierraDan [ Sun May 22, 2011 8:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shackle angle, springs and ride quality |
Run 70mm shackles. |
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| Author: | S13RR4 [ Sun May 22, 2011 11:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shackle angle, springs and ride quality |
yeah run standard length (70mm) as that's what the spring would have been designed for. As you increase shackle length your shackle angle will approach vertical. Which will lead to a harsher ride. Also the springs do take a little bit to settle in and should soften a bit with time |
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| Author: | Gwagensteve [ Mon May 23, 2011 9:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shackle angle, springs and ride quality |
Buying HD springs is part of the problem. I have yet to see a sierra heavy enough to make HD OME rears work - They are designed for a car at pretty much GVM permanently - and that's when they will deliver 50mm of lift. If your car is lighter, the end result is vertical shackles and no droop. As has been stated, longer shackles will only make this problem worse. Run standard length shackles and pull more leaves to get the height you want. Yes, you are right though, flatter shackles give a better ride, due to a softer initial rate. It's the equivalent of a little bit of "squat" in coil spring terms. Steve. |
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| Author: | rick1970 [ Mon May 23, 2011 6:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shackle angle, springs and ride quality |
Reasoning for the HD springs was its easier to pull leaves i have that fit leaves i don't have. The zook has a steel rear bar/spare carrier with a full 20L jerry on the back all the time and i carry 50-80 kg in the back semi regulary. After a proper run on sealed roads, i shouldn't complain to much about the rear springs. It is a tad harsh but overall ride has proberly improved due to not hitting the rear bumpstops now. Still, will make new std length shackles for the rear 1st and give it a chance to settle a bit....,.then maybe pull the next leaf. Will add a extra short leaf to the front and refit the shorter shackles which should leave my ride height as is and rid me of these horrible shackles its running now. Cheers |
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| Author: | S13RR4 [ Mon May 23, 2011 10:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shackle angle, springs and ride quality |
I think Jr Zook, (don't quote me) found that the only difference between the normal and HD springs was an extra leaf (or two). That is they both have the same number of leaves (bar the extra one in the HD pack) and all those leaves have the same length and thickness, although that doesn't account for the spring rate of each leaf I'd say they'd be pretty close. |
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| Author: | rick1970 [ Sat May 28, 2011 12:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shackle angle, springs and ride quality |
Had a play with both front and rear spring packs today. Rear is now running the top three OME springs plus the longer load leaf, and fitted with std length shackles. Front is now the two top origional LJ rear springs, the leaf i pulled from the OME rear pack as the third, origional LJ fourth spring and a short thin load type leaf that i think came fron a LJ front pack. Shackles are 90mm. End result is pretty good. Rear is softer and lower. Front sits a bit higher than it was, is a touch firmer and steering is good. Ride quality on slightly bumpy dirt road is much better. Bumpstop clearance sitting at 90mm rear and 40mm front (with 30mm of bumpstop spacing). Front end flex seems unchanged from the softer spring pack. Up for another set of extended braided brake lines (allready around 6" over from when i went WT diffs and Vit brakes) as they are now the limiting factor in the front. Still running the origional rear shocks, so droop in the rear is still very ordinary but it dose compress to the bumpstops better. My rear axle wrap problem seems to have dissapeared now i have a full length second leaf in the rear. Open on ideas for rear shocks. Was going to move the rear upper mount up a bit, so something a bit longer then the 81147 Hiace shocks would be nice |
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| Author: | SierraDan [ Sat May 28, 2011 12:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shackle angle, springs and ride quality |
81718. Hilux shocks. I think compresses length is 360-something mm And extended is 570-something mm |
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| Author: | S13RR4 [ Sat May 28, 2011 11:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shackle angle, springs and ride quality |
I removed my shocks and flexed up my car as far as I could. On standard Bump stops. Rear Compressed - 350mm Front Compressed - 320mm With 40mm OME medium Duty springs, (smallest one removed from rear pack) Rear Fully Extended - 580mm Front Fully Extended - 460mm I now have Standard Hilux Rears in the back and lifted (I think 2") hilux fronts in the front and still compress to bump stops and still extend to the above lengths. I don't know the part numbers as I snaked them off my brothers hilux when he got new ones. Just some info for you |
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| Author: | rick1970 [ Sun May 29, 2011 3:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shackle angle, springs and ride quality |
Havn't checked mine at full flex without shocks yet, but the rear is 380mm static at 90mm bumpstop clearance. The genuine Suzuki shocks measure 263 closed and 430 open. Without spacing the rear bumpstop or moving the shock mounts, i think a closed length of around 280mm would be the max i could run. If i get some spare time at work during the week, i will drop the rear shocks and pick the front up with the forklift and see what figures i get at full droop/compression. |
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