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power steering questions
https://www.auszookers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=14175		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  31zook [ Sun Aug 08, 2010 9:14 am ]
Post subject:  power steering questions
I know bugger all about power steering and only know the names of the parts of the stuff i need to buy to make them work, so excuse the dumb questions. Im thinking about buying a power steering pump off lowrangeoffroad.com. this will be mated up with a fuild cooler and a cressida power steering box, by custom NEW lines.

My question is will the bigger pump make the steering eaiser, or is it the box that does that?

Will i have to drill out the box to make it effective?

and will i need a bigger reservoir for the bigger pump?

I already have a jimny pump and reservoir, so apart from the box i have everything already.

cheers :D
Author:  steak_knife [ Sun Aug 08, 2010 9:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: power steering questions
I think you will want to run a cooler with that amount of flow, the pressure hoses may have a habit of busting to..
res will need to be bigger ( i think) but if you already have a pump & res, why do you want more??? :? :?
Author:  royce [ Sun Aug 08, 2010 9:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: power steering questions
It is unlikely youll need the extra flow for just a cressida box with no extra ram

whether the box can use or will benefit from the extra pressure might be something for suck it and see

you dont need a bigger reservoir, as the system has no action that moves a lot of fluid, IE a single sided ram lifting a tipper or something

I wouldnt bother, see how it goes and if it turns out you could do with more pressure at low revs than the generic falcon pump with the relief spring shimmed up should only cost about $30 to do
Author:  31zook [ Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: power steering questions
cheers stek and royce :D stek, it says in the description that you will need a cooler for it, so better to spend the extra $50 or so and see, also ill get the new lines made up by a mining shop just around the corner from my work shop so ill tell them the psi it puts out and they can work out what size lines need to be put in. Awesome royce, i was guessing that the bigger reservoir was due to ram assist applications and such, not the fact that the pump will move so much fluid that i need one. suck it and see will be my approach to this one. has anyone on here run one before?


now to go looking for mums credit card :lol:
Author:  royce [ Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: power steering questions
yeah a cooler is always a good idea, there is no such thing as too cool for power steer oil
Author:  appsie [ Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: power steering questions
having a big resevoir would also help with the cooling process.
Author:  31zook [ Mon Aug 09, 2010 6:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: power steering questions
Ok, so i've been thinking about how to word this today and this is my question. Will a bigger more powerful pump make the box push and pull any harder then a stock pump setup?
Author:  Fatzook [ Mon Aug 09, 2010 6:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: power steering questions
31zook wrote:
Ok, so i've been thinking about how to word this today and this is my question. Will a bigger more powerful pump make the box push and pull any harder then a stock pump setup?


Possibly. Be carefull not to blow the seals out of the box though. It will be designed to operate under a certain pressure range.
Author:  bagnkat [ Mon Aug 09, 2010 9:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: power steering questions
31zook wrote:
Ok, so i've been thinking about how to word this today and this is my question. Will a bigger more powerful pump make the box push and pull any harder then a stock pump setup?


So I've had a quick think about this and here are a few things I came up with:

A powersteering pump doesn't turn on or off - it pumps whenever the engine is turning.

When going straight without any steering input, the steering box wouldn't need any hydraulic force supplied to it... so

The box (or possibly the pump) must have a pressure bypass valve so that the pump and lines don't get damaged from an hydraulic lock.

Given this last point a higher pressure pump may be pointless as the fluid is just circulating. Also, a larger pump may supply the same pressure just with higher flow rates.

Not sure though - it would be interesting to find out what pressures they supply
Author:  Fatzook [ Mon Aug 09, 2010 9:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: power steering questions
bagnkat wrote:
31zook wrote:
Ok, so i've been thinking about how to word this today and this is my question. Will a bigger more powerful pump make the box push and pull any harder then a stock pump setup?


So I've had a quick think about this and here are a few things I came up with:

A powersteering pump doesn't turn on or off - it pumps whenever the engine is turning.

When going straight without any steering input, the steering box wouldn't need any hydraulic force supplied to it... so

The box (or possibly the pump) must have a pressure bypass valve so that the pump and lines don't get damaged from an hydraulic lock.

Given this last point a higher pressure pump may be pointless as the fluid is just circulating. Also, a larger pump may supply the same pressure just with higher flow rates.

Not sure though - it would be interesting to find out what pressures they supply


I think that you are trying to make a square wheel from a round one :D

The factory setup is almost always sufficient. Just add a cooler and leave the rest.

JMO
Pete
Author:  bagnkat [ Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: power steering questions
Fatzook wrote:

I think that you are trying to make a square wheel from a round one :D


I agree with you Fatzook... what you wrote is essentially what I was trying to suggest. But I still am curious as to what pressures an automotive powersteering system runs at.
Author:  Fatzook [ Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: power steering questions
bagnkat wrote:
Fatzook wrote:

I think that you are trying to make a square wheel from a round one :D


I still am curious as to what pressures an automotive powersteering system runs at.


No Idea. But suffice to say its a bit. I've seen a line blow before and it emptied the system in a second or two. It wouldn't be enough to penitrate the skin like a hydraulic system would ( excavators etc).

EDIT. Just googled it and apparently it can exceed 1000psi at the pump 8O
Author:  rick1970 [ Mon Aug 09, 2010 6:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: power steering questions
bagnkat wrote:
31zook wrote:
Ok, so i've been thinking about how to word this today and this is my question. Will a bigger more powerful pump make the box push and pull any harder then a stock pump setup?


So I've had a quick think about this and here are a few things I came up with:

A powersteering pump doesn't turn on or off - it pumps whenever the engine is turning.

When going straight without any steering input, the steering box wouldn't need any hydraulic force supplied to it... so

The box (or possibly the pump) must have a pressure bypass valve so that the pump and lines don't get damaged from an hydraulic lock.



Given this last point a higher pressure pump may be pointless as the fluid is just circulating. Also, a larger pump may supply the same pressure just with higher flow rates.

Not sure though - it would be interesting to find out what pressures they supply


Yes the pump will b e supplying oil whenever the engine is running. With no steering input the line pressure will be fairly low, maybe a few hundred psi, as the oil will be curculating straight through the box and back to the resivoir.

When you turn the wheel, oil is redirected inside the box to ther appropiate side to assist in steering and pressure will rise in acordance to the resistance on the wheels. Pressure will only rise to whats required to actually turn the wheels, so working pressures will be somewhat lower at road speeds than just turning the wheels at rest.

A higher flow rate and /or pressure won't make things any easier with a stock setup. A higher flow rate pump may be required when using something like a assist ram plumbed into the box, which requires more flow so you don't 'catch up' to the steering when turning the wheel quickly. A higher relief setting will only increase the maximum torque output of the box, which may be usefull with big tyres aired down.

Bigger flows at higher pressures are a good way to fry things :wink:
Author:  31zook [ Mon Aug 09, 2010 6:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: power steering questions
so pretty much, if i stick on a bigger pump the box has a valve and will just let the extra fluid run back into the loop, or the 2nd option is it will just blow the seals out of the box and ill be back to square one. Am i readying this all right?

PS: fats, it puts out 1,600PSI so thats nearly double....
Author:  rick1970 [ Mon Aug 09, 2010 7:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: power steering questions
mmmmm. Yes the box will ciuculate the extra oil, but static line pressure will be higher. Not good if you don't actually need it.

Good excuse to spend money on a (now needed) bigger resivoir, hoses and oil cooler tho :lol:
Author:  appsie [ Mon Aug 09, 2010 8:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: power steering questions
is this where the x3 rule applies now to the resevoir rick???
Author:  rick1970 [ Mon Aug 09, 2010 8:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: power steering questions
appsie wrote:
is this where the x3 rule applies now to the resevoir rick???


The big streak of pelican shit has taught you well :lol:

If practical, yes. Bit hard to acheive in a car tho.
Author:  royce [ Mon Aug 09, 2010 8:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: power steering questions
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/steering.htm
Author:  31zook [ Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: power steering questions
ok, so dud idea then. the pump will only make the box work to its most efficent. Ill just use my jimny pump and reservoir. cheer guys :D
Author:  Fatzook [ Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: power steering questions
31zook wrote:
ok, so dud idea then. the pump will only make the box work to its most efficent. Ill just use my jimny pump and reservoir. cheer guys :D


I kinda feel cheated in some way. All that tech, and no result :roll: :D
Author:  appsie [ Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: power steering questions
better tap my vit box and get a ram then :lol:
Author:  Fatzook [ Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: power steering questions
appsie wrote:
better tap my vit box and get a ram then :lol:


Ram assist Armsup
Author:  31zook [ Tue Aug 10, 2010 6:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: power steering questions
wow, i hadn't even considered that.... is it engineerable? i have money to go, im just trying to spend it wisely..... has anyone even done ram assist on zuk diffs?
Author:  appsie [ Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: power steering questions
i could be wrong but dont you become speed limited legally with assist??? or im full of shit hahah
Author:  BlueSuzy [ Tue Aug 10, 2010 11:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: power steering questions
There is a way you can open the fitting up to put more pressure into the box,

http://bbs.zuwharrie.com/content/topic,82835.0.html

I found it on my vit box researching

I had this also, it was a box bolt adapt template, but link doesnt work now.. :?
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/phpBB2/vi ... p?t=114031
Author:  TZAR [ Tue Aug 10, 2010 11:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: power steering questions
http://www.zookdawg.com/tutorials/suzuk ... -pump-mod/

this one has pics that work
Author:  BlueSuzy [ Tue Aug 10, 2010 11:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: power steering questions
Beat ya! Same person :lol:
Author:  31zook [ Wed Aug 11, 2010 6:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: power steering questions
I think the full hyrdo set up is only registrable if it's registered as a tractor thats where the speed limit comes in. But i don't think that just ram assit will make any legal diffrences with engineering.

I think ill just use my cressida box and try to tweak the pump as much as possible, and see if i want more later... Ram assit would be awesome, but a cop magnet, another thing to go wrong and allot more money... sorry fats for no tech, ill come back and do a write up on the jimny pump tweaking....

suck it and see.....
Author:  rick1970 [ Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: power steering questions
Wouldn't think ram assist would be a real issue engineering wise as it still retains a mechanical steering link in case of hydraulic failure, unlike hydrostatic steering.

Lots of trucks use the p/s box + assist ram system from the factory.
Author:  steak_knife [ Wed Aug 18, 2010 11:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: power steering questions
http://www.eziautoparts.com.au/power-st ... icles.html

:P
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