[panyuweimin]

Hi all, I have a 2009 JB43. I am thinking about swapping the engine to M16A VVT from a 2014 Swift. I have read VSI.06 (2013), which states that no certificate is required for an engine swap of no more than 20% larger. So M13A 1,328cc to M16A 1,586cc is 19.4% increase. However, other online sources indicate a 20% power threshold, which is somewhat ambiguous, as the Jimny M13A is 63 kW, while the M16A VVT has a different power range of 75kW-100kW, implying a 19%-59% increase for different car variations.

My question is, if I go to get a blueslip, would they just check the displacement and say ok or likely ask for a VSCCS certificate?

I have spoken to a VSCCS certifier, and he says I need to do it even for a M15A swap as Suzuki has never produced a M15A Jimny so it wasn't optional, clearly he just wants his $2750. I mean, how can a blueslip station know which engine variation just based on the engine number?

If someone has a firsthand experience, that would be great. Location is Sydney North Shore.

[panyuweimin]

I called my local blue slip place, they asked me to call NSW RTA. I called NSW RTA, the guy clarified I need to prove the engines are from the same family, and both displacement and power are no more than 20% increase, but to prove that I need evidence from the manufacture, such as an email. So I emailed Suzuki, and the clueless customer service person replied saying they don’t want to help.

When reading the Wikipedia page on the M13A, the reference article in Japanese has the following paragraph.

From the beginning, the design was premised on an increased displacement, and by extending the stroke while keeping the bore size of the M13A at 78.0mm, variations in displacement were developed, including the 1490cc M15A and the 1586cc M16A. Until 2007, the M18A also existed, with a displacement of 1796cc, achieved by enlarging the bore (83mm) of the M16A. All of these models are equipped with VVT on the intake camshaft (only for Japan; some are omitted in overseas models). The M15A and M16A use a variable intake mechanism, which increases torque at low rpm without using long, space-consuming intake pipes.

It sounds like from M13A to M16A, I just need to swap the crankshaft, rod and piston, while keeping the M13A engine block and same engine number?

[MightGetDirty]

I'm sure some other guys might respond here eventually with better rapport, especially for your second post. But let me jump in here before you (potentially) run too far down the wrong track regarding engine swapping.

Firstly let me say I don't have any firsthand experience, but I have been looking deep into the ADRs and what mods requires VSCCS recently (non-engine related though) so I might as well put in my 2c... but take it with a bit of salt.

I understand you've read it, but for others searching up for similar engine swaps and such I will paste the link to VSI.06 (2013) HERE:

..and quote the rules of Significant modifications requiring certification, #1:
"An engine that is not of an original family of engine for the series of models, or any
engine more than 20% larger than the largest original optional engine for that series."

Now the way how I would interpret this is:

• An "original family of engine" and "series of models" is meaning the group of engines originally offered from factory for that given model, and for the whole "Jimny" series of vehicles released in Australia, respectively (the fact that the Jimny name was used for a bunch of other zooks in other parts of the world but sold with a different name in Oz muddies the waters here a lot especially where grey imports are concerned.. But I feel in the govt's eyes for example the Sierra is NOT part of the Jimny series IE. only JB43 and JB74 models are considered as part of the Jimny series in Australia)
• In consideration of the first part, the second part of the rule is redundant with the OR operand if you interpret "largest original optional engine for that series" - particularly the word "series" - as being the Jimny series. I believe NSW Govt has done goofed with the wording here and really meant "largest original engine for that model". THAT then makes logical sense without being redundant, and aligns with their provided example of what constitutes as not requiring certification.

Unfortunately, my interpretation ends up siding with the VSCCS certifier - as the M16A was never offered as a powerplant in the Jimny and only in the Swift series of cars. To me it seems the only option to increase engine displacement without VSCCS cert is to use the JB74's K15B engine. That is, provided you don't fall awry of the hundred other rules in the VSI to make such a transplant work (for gearbox, drivetrain etc etc..).

An example where my interpretation of the second part of Rule #1 would prevent you from engine swapping without a VSCCS is best shown using my car series - the grand vitara:

• The "Grand Vitara" series of cars in Oz would be the 2st gen "FT/GT" model GV, the "JA" GV XL-7, and the 3rd Gen "JT/JB".
• You won't be able to transplant the 3.2L N32A V6 from the 3rd gen GV, into a FT (non-XL-7) GV without certification, as even though it would satisfy the "series" part of the rule, it wouldn't comply with the "less than 20% larger for that model" part as the largest original engine for the FT is the 2.5L H25A

[fordem]

panyuweimin wrote:

It sounds like from M13A to M16A, I just need to swap the crankshaft, rod and piston, while keeping the M13A engine block and same engine number?

The engines do not share a block - the longer stroke requires a taller block.

[panyuweimin]

MightGetDirty wrote:

I'm sure some other guys might respond here eventually with better rapport, especially for your second post. But let me jump in here before you (potentially) run too far down the wrong track regarding engine swapping.

Thanks. My conversation with the NSW RTA guy made it clear that the same engine family is needed, not that it has to be offered for the Jimny. Based on Wikipedia, we know M13A, M15A and M16A are from the same M-family. But to prove it I need something from Suzuki, maybe even a sales brochure about the engine. The K15B is from a different engine family, so it is a significant modification of the 2009 Jimny.

People on Facebook are confirming that a simple change of record can be made by switching to M15A. But I can't find anyone with the M16A. Strictly, an M16A from a 2008 Grand Vitara is 73kW, so all the hurdles are passed, even the emission is fine if the engine from a car plated after July 2008.

fordem wrote:

panyuweimin wrote:

It sounds like from M13A to M16A, I just need to swap the crankshaft, rod and piston, while keeping the M13A engine block and same engine number?

The engines do not share a block - the longer stroke requires a taller block.

Thank you for confirming this. Would a M16A from a Swift Sport (e.g. 92kW) on Jimny ECU/intake/exhaust/throttle run at the low end of power (e.g. 73kW), given the lack of tuning?

[fordem]

Take a look at this discussion...

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=30308

[panyuweimin]

fordem wrote:

Take a look at this discussion...

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=30308

Thank you. I have just re-read it. Two people did say 83kW at the dyno after putting in M16A from Swift Sport. This is lower than the stated Swfit Sport power but still higher than 74kW from a standard M16A VVT.

The thread also includes some early comments about legality, made before the 2013 rules, so they are probably not relevant now.