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Camber bolts vs camber tops
https://www.auszookers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=55280		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  shakes [ Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Camber bolts vs camber tops
For the vitara drivers here.

Apart from the glaringly obvious price difference...

Why are bolts preferred? Is there any other reason or
Benifit one way or the other?
Author:  atari4x4 [ Fri Jun 29, 2018 1:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Camber bolts vs camber tops
Can you get adjustable camber tops??? 8O
Author:  shakes [ Fri Jun 29, 2018 1:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Camber bolts vs camber tops
Not that I've seen. Haven't dug too hard.

Is it a supply/demand/cost type thing the reason they aren't available?

Or is there actually a 'mechanical' reason too that I can't see?
Author:  atari4x4 [ Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Camber bolts vs camber tops
NFI, doubt there was ever much demand, but i vaguely remember seeing some fitted to a vitara in the last 15 years.

i know the SV & SQ have longer studs on them to account for the strut brace.
Author:  got_bar_work [ Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Camber bolts vs camber tops
Anything has to be better the camber bolts.
Author:  fordem [ Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Camber bolts vs camber tops
The "camber tops" that I've seen were from K-MAC, who don't normally do them for four wheel drive vehicles, but, who were persuaded to do a set for a guy with a Pajero iO, which is about Vitara sized, on the basis that it wasn't that much heavier than a car.

I didn't particularly care for them because they were "all metal", so no isolation for NVH, and if I remember correctly, the spherical bearings used didn't last long - I should point out that the Pajero uses a bearing in the strut mount and the Vitaras don't.
Author:  shakes [ Sat Jun 30, 2018 6:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Camber bolts vs camber tops
fordem wrote:
The "camber tops" that I've seen were from K-MAC, who don't normally do them for four wheel drive vehicles, but, who were persuaded to do a set for a guy with a Pajero iO, which is about Vitara sized, on the basis that it wasn't that much heavier than a car.

I didn't particularly care for them because they were "all metal", so no isolation for NVH, and if I remember correctly, the spherical bearings used didn't last long - I should point out that the Pajero uses a bearing in the strut mount and the Vitaras don't.


Thanks, their prices are avg $545 for most cars. I'm guessing thats why, typical tightass suzuki drivers only wanting to spend $40 for a set of bolts vs $545

I'm not experienced enough to know if the bearing in the top would be an issue, likely more due to mud than vibration. I'll plant the seed in the heads of a couple of mates in the rally/circuit scene and see what I can work out. likely a project for a later date.
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Camber bolts vs camber tops
I think the range of adjustment would be very small. The Vitara runs a very large rubber bush which is there to handle misalignment from flexing and vibration. It experiences pretty high loads. the only way to adjust camber at the top would be to reduce the diameter of the bush substantially.

Thinking out loud an offset or adjustable strut spacer could be built which could drop the bush below the chassis allowing more adjustment and the retention of the stock bush, but, you know, strut spacers. ewww.
Author:  shakes [ Sat Jun 30, 2018 7:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Camber bolts vs camber tops
Lesser of two evils?

Hard to say.
Author:  fordem [ Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Camber bolts vs camber tops
Re-visiting this - I believe the guy with the Pajero had to "re-shape" one of the strut towers slightly (bash it with a large hammer) to get clearance for the strut top to allow the KMAC camber plates to give the range of adjustment he needed, and this could be a potential problem area on the Vitaras, not because the strut towers lack clearance, but because of the body-on-frame construction.

The Pajero was a monocoque construction vehicle so once the plates were installed, the bolts that allowed the adjustments were accessible, because the Vits have the strut towers mounted below the body, they will be less accessible, or in the case of a GV, possibly completely inaccessible.

It may also not be possible to do them on a GV because of the way the strut brace bolts to the mounts.
Author:  30ONA [ Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Camber bolts vs camber tops
Instead of camber bolts can't you just elongate the hole in the strut lower mount then apply lots on Nm to keep it there? Saying this my camber bolts have never moved. But I do wonder if I have another issue as I can get an less than +1deg (2 inch lift). I suspect some sagged bushes might be the culprit(s).
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Camber bolts vs camber tops
A) No, no you can't. Don't try this. "lots of Nm" is the amount of Nm the strut knuckle bolts are currently done up to there isn't some magical extra number that will apply enough friction to make this a safe idea. if you wanted to do something like this the way might be to slot the holes fit thick washers, adjust until camber is were you want it, and then weld the washers to the strut.

B) A genuine 50mm of front lift might not be corrected with one camber bolt.

C) How would bush wear increase positive camber? Both control arm bushes would have to wear inwards towards the chassis preferentially, when, in fact, their default state is to be pulled away from the chassis.
Author:  shakes [ Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Camber bolts vs camber tops
Gwagensteve wrote:
A) No, no you can't. Don't try this. "lots of Nm" is the amount of Nm the strut knuckle bolts are currently done up to there isn't some magical extra number that will apply enough friction to make this a safe idea. if you wanted to do something like this the way might be to slot the holes fit thick washers, adjust until camber is were you want it, and then weld the washers to the strut.



This isn't too dissimilar to a common fix on Range Rovers. Not sure if it's worth investigating further though.
Author:  Gwagensteve [ Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Camber bolts vs camber tops
Do you mean the way Range Rovers have bolt on swivel housings and the housing holes are lengthened to increase caster? If so, it’s nothing like that.

Steve.
Author:  shakes [ Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Camber bolts vs camber tops
Re-drilling knuckles to suit new alignment specs?

Nothing common about that at all. :roll:
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