[JML]

Looking at getting my first off-road rig, initially was considering early Pajero's and Prado's when I came across a couple of 1st Gen Vitaras and I love the way they look. At the moment there are two near me, both LWB (I need the extra space as I want it to double up as a tourer):
Aa 92 JLX auto 1.6 petrol with 192k on the clock and rwc with 8 months reg (7.5k), no mods that I can see.
and a 96'SV620 auto that had an h25a engine swapped in to replace the original h20 2l. The body has 320k but the Grand Vitara engines K's are unkown, looks clean but who knows. No reg or roady but the guys willing to get a mechanic to check. Roof rack but that's it.

A couple of Basic Q's what sort of mods would I be looking at to be able to keep up with my mates Hilux's and Rangers? (I don't have to do the hardcore stuff but just to do moderate level offroading)
I prefer the idea of the larger 2.5 v6 but it's not engineered, I'm pretty sure that being an optioned engine it doesn't have to be but figured id better check with you guys (located in VIC).
Seen a few 2nd Gens which are cheaper with less K's, I'm guessing it's because they're worse off-road and don't have the same aesthetic/classic vibe? (no offence intended to 2nd gen owners happy to be corrected)
What would be a better move, taking into account fuel economy etc, budgets around 6k but I'm willing to go a bit over?
How does the 1.6l go it sounds like it could be a bit underpowered, any bolt-on swap options like the H20 to H25 or easily turbocharged? Is it as reliable as the H series engines?
Anything else I should know, only seriously started looking at Vits yesterday so my knowledge is super limited?
Finally, should I move this to the "what I want topic"?
Cheers guys!

[fordem]

First - and be aware that is from a "non-aussie" so I'm not familiar with the regulations - the H25 engine was never an option in the SV620 chassis - it's just an easy swap.

Second, and I'm willing to be corrected on this, the only advantage the first gen has over the second gen has nothing to do with it's capabilities, it's about ease of modification, there is a wider choice of "off the shelf" stuff available - as an example ARB offers air lockers for both ends of the first gens, but not for the second; if you want to lock your second gen, you have to fit the third members from the first gen.

Under the sheet metal, second gens are very similar in design to the first gen, bigger, more powerful, more comfortable.

[Gwagensteve]

This is going to sounds a bit negative, but I'm just trying to be pragmatic. Lots of people end up using cars they bought for jobs they weren't really designed for, and enjoy that process, but that's often because they inadvertently bought the wrong car for the job to start with and they're stuck with it, their needs changed and they can't justify selling their car, or the "right" car for the job doesn't exist (which is sort of where I'm at)

I don't know anything about your mechanical ability, or access to tools, but be very cautious about buying a project. Generally, every cent will get burned up just making it functional, you'll have nothing left to spend on making it better. This is almost always the case for 25 year old cars, but even more so for something that's been converted or otherwise modified in unknown ways. If you can't do the work yourself, don't even consider it.

If you genuinely want a car to do what your mates are doing in midsized utes, buy a midsize ute or wagon (wagons are cheaper) like the prado or pajero you were considering. Don't buy a Vitara because you like the look of it, buy the best looking car that does the job you need. This position gets me in trouble with suzuki "enthusiasts" who think a suzuki is the answer for every question, but I think buying a car that is the right tool for the job is better than trying to defend a car that isn't very good at something. Like touring. Yes, it's been done. I know of a guy who took a LWB vitara down the canning stock route, alone. Just because he did it doesn't mean he had the right car for the job (and the evidence that he did it alone should be enough to understand his decision making skills)

Vitaras are decent urban vehicles with light to medium 4WDing capability. There are some quirks of their design that were exploited by 4WDer's to get them further offroad than was probably prudent, the biggest being no rebound stops on the front suspension, so the front can be made to flex well and the expense of CV's, but this sort of work is pretty advanced and expensive. I've helped build and driven vitaras in some pretty technical 4WDing and know them quite well mechanically, but whether what you're trying to do with the car is reasonable depends on this:

Quote:

what sort of mods would I be looking at to be able to keep up with my mates Hilux's and Rangers? (I don't have to do the hardcore stuff but just to do moderate level offroading)

Sorry if this sounds like I'm being facetious, but I don't know what any of that means. Keep up on road? Off road? keep up when laden for touring? Don't know what moderate 4WD means, for you or for them. What you're basically asking, as far as I can tell, is "to perform the same" and the answer is it won't and can't. It's a smaller, lighter car with lighter duty running gear and far less payload, so to do the same job, you'll be working the car harder, and trying to do a job that it wasn't designed to do. That doesn't mean you can't have fun, but it won't be as reliable, you won't be carrying as much, you'll be driving the car harder, and you'll have to do more modifications, most likely to the point where you're reluctant to use the car much because of the amount of work you have to do to keep it running, or how modified it is.

Quote:

I prefer the idea of the larger 2.5 v6 but it's not engineered, I'm pretty sure that being an optioned engine it doesn't have to be but figured id better check with you guys (located in VIC).

it was not an optioned engine in a 1st generation Vitara. It exceeds the capacity increase and power increase to avoid an engineering certificate. It needs certification. How it's been done in terms of ECU etc is all unknown - theres lots of scope for different ways to do this and better or worse outcomes. Expect to have to do lots of work to understand how and what was done.

Quote:

Seen a few 2nd Gens which are cheaper with less K's, I'm guessing it's because they're worse off-road and don't have the same aesthetic/classic vibe? (no offence intended to 2nd gen owners happy to be corrected)

If, by "2nd gen" you mean the Grand Vitara, they're not worse off road. I can't comment on aesthetics. They're likely cheaper because there's now more of them around and they're pretty worn out. The GV has superior rear suspension which improves handling and ride. about the only disadvantage is added bulk and the rack and pinion steering is considered less suited to hard off road work, but I think that's a bit of a myth.

Quote:

What would be a better move, taking into account fuel economy etc, budgets around 6k but I'm willing to go a bit over?

You're not comparing apples with apples. One is ready to go, one is a project. There are lots of potential issues with the H25 swapped car, not to mention it has high kms. Throw in moderate 4WDing and it could be very expensive to troubleshoot. The H25 car will be thirstier, but you're not talking about economical cars in any case. The H25 car will cost around $1K for engineering, +RWC + reg so you have to consider circa $2K on top of purchase price before you fix anything or work out what's wrong with the conversion. The G16 car will be cheaper to own and to keep running.

Quote:

How does the 1.6l go it sounds like it could be a bit underpowered, any bolt-on swap options like the H20 to H25 or easily turbocharged? Is it as reliable as the H series engines?

There are no bolt on swap options for the G engined cars- G16B was already the biggest/most powerful variant of the G engine. Turbocharging will cost $5-8K for a semi-reliable outcome. They're not an engine that likes boost. Who said H engines are reliable? They throw timing chains due to tensioner failure, which is expensive. They all do it. If they've been replaced in the engine fitted to the car you're looking at, great, but personally, I think the H engine is poorly suited to a 4WD, it's overly complex and suffers from typically wonky V6 power delivery - with dips and troughs, no stroke etc. It was a "high feature" engine for the urban JDM market. (it's a reworked Astina/Eunos engine)

All up, the G16 car is the better buy in my opinion, but I'm not convinced it's the right car for your use.

[JML]

Gwagensteve wrote:

This is going to sounds a bit negative, but I'm just trying to be pragmatic. Lots of people end up using cars they bought for jobs they weren't really designed for, and enjoy that process, but that's often because they inadvertently bought the wrong car for the job to start with and they're stuck with it, their needs changed and they can't justify selling their car, or the "right" car for the job doesn't exist (which is sort of where I'm at)

I don't know anything about your mechanical ability, or access to tools, but be very cautious about buying a project. Generally, every cent will get burned up just making it functional, you'll have nothing left to spend on making it better. This is almost always the case for 25 year old cars, but even more so for something that's been converted or otherwise modified in unknown ways. If you can't do the work yourself, don't even consider it.

If you genuinely want a car to do what your mates are doing in midsized utes, buy a midsize ute or wagon (wagons are cheaper) like the prado or pajero you were considering. Don't buy a Vitara because you like the look of it, buy the best looking car that does the job you need. This position gets me in trouble with suzuki "enthusiasts" who think a suzuki is the answer for every question, but I think buying a car that is the right tool for the job is better than trying to defend a car that isn't very good at something. Like touring. Yes, it's been done. I know of a guy who took a LWB vitara down the canning stock route, alone. Just because he did it doesn't mean he had the right car for the job (and the evidence that he did it alone should be enough to understand his decision making skills)

Vitaras are decent urban vehicles with light to medium 4WDing capability. There are some quirks of their design that were exploited by 4WDer's to get them further offroad than was probably prudent, the biggest being no rebound stops on the front suspension, so the front can be made to flex well and the expense of CV's, but this sort of work is pretty advanced and expensive. I've helped build and driven vitaras in some pretty technical 4WDing and know them quite well mechanically, but whether what you're trying to do with the car is reasonable depends on this:

Quote:

what sort of mods would I be looking at to be able to keep up with my mates Hilux's and Rangers? (I don't have to do the hardcore stuff but just to do moderate level offroading)

Sorry if this sounds like I'm being facetious, but I don't know what any of that means. Keep up on road? Off road? keep up when laden for touring? Don't know what moderate 4WD means, for you or for them. What you're basically asking, as far as I can tell, is "to perform the same" and the answer is it won't and can't. It's a smaller, lighter car with lighter duty running gear and far less payload, so to do the same job, you'll be working the car harder, and trying to do a job that it wasn't designed to do. That doesn't mean you can't have fun, but it won't be as reliable, you won't be carrying as much, you'll be driving the car harder, and you'll have to do more modifications, most likely to the point where you're reluctant to use the car much because of the amount of work you have to do to keep it running, or how modified it is.

Quote:

I prefer the idea of the larger 2.5 v6 but it's not engineered, I'm pretty sure that being an optioned engine it doesn't have to be but figured id better check with you guys (located in VIC).

it was not an optioned engine in a 1st generation Vitara. It exceeds the capacity increase and power increase to avoid an engineering certificate. It needs certification. How it's been done in terms of ECU etc is all unknown - theres lots of scope for different ways to do this and better or worse outcomes. Expect to have to do lots of work to understand how and what was done.

Quote:

Seen a few 2nd Gens which are cheaper with less K's, I'm guessing it's because they're worse off-road and don't have the same aesthetic/classic vibe? (no offence intended to 2nd gen owners happy to be corrected)

If, by "2nd gen" you mean the Grand Vitara, they're not worse off road. I can't comment on aesthetics. They're likely cheaper because there's now more of them around and they're pretty worn out. The GV has superior rear suspension which improves handling and ride. about the only disadvantage is added bulk and the rack and pinion steering is considered less suited to hard off road work, but I think that's a bit of a myth.

Quote:

What would be a better move, taking into account fuel economy etc, budgets around 6k but I'm willing to go a bit over?

You're not comparing apples with apples. One is ready to go, one is a project. There are lots of potential issues with the H25 swapped car, not to mention it has high kms. Throw in moderate 4WDing and it could be very expensive to troubleshoot. The H25 car will be thirstier, but you're not talking about economical cars in any case. The H25 car will cost around $1K for engineering, +RWC + reg so you have to consider circa $2K on top of purchase price before you fix anything or work out what's wrong with the conversion. The G16 car will be cheaper to own and to keep running.

Quote:

How does the 1.6l go it sounds like it could be a bit underpowered, any bolt-on swap options like the H20 to H25 or easily turbocharged? Is it as reliable as the H series engines?

There are no bolt on swap options for the G engined cars- G16B was already the biggest/most powerful variant of the G engine. Turbocharging will cost $5-8K for a semi-reliable outcome. They're not an engine that likes boost. Who said H engines are reliable? They throw timing chains due to tensioner failure, which is expensive. They all do it. If they've been replaced in the engine fitted to the car you're looking at, great, but personally, I think the H engine is poorly suited to a 4WD, it's overly complex and suffers from typically wonky V6 power delivery - with dips and troughs, no stroke etc. It was a "high feature" engine for the urban JDM market. (it's a reworked Astina/Eunos engine)

All up, the G16 car is the better buy in my opinion, but I'm not convinced it's the right car for your use.

Thanks for the heads up. The H25 I wouldnt buy without a roady so it wouldnt be a propper project unless you consider modding which I'm confident I can do.
Yeah definity happy with keeping up on road with the Rangers and Lux's it was the offroad stuff I wanted to be able to tag along with, I was planning on doing the basic lift, bullbar snorkel etc and save up for an ARB diff locker. Had heard that vitara's where capable of mid level off roading, seen a few impressive videos but I'm sure theyre modded to hell. I guess that could just be the fanboys piping up saying they can keep up offroad which is a shame, liked the idea of something a bit smaller that could double as a daily so I dont need two cars but if the Vit won't cope offroad its not what I need.
Guess a few of the things I've read are wrong but I'd rather know before I buy.

[JML]

Gwagensteve wrote:

This is going to sounds a bit negative, but I'm just trying to be pragmatic. Lots of people end up using cars they bought for jobs they weren't really designed for, and enjoy that process, but that's often because they inadvertently bought the wrong car for the job to start with and they're stuck with it, their needs changed and they can't justify selling their car, or the "right" car for the job doesn't exist (which is sort of where I'm at)

I don't know anything about your mechanical ability, or access to tools, but be very cautious about buying a project. Generally, every cent will get burned up just making it functional, you'll have nothing left to spend on making it better. This is almost always the case for 25 year old cars, but even more so for something that's been converted or otherwise modified in unknown ways. If you can't do the work yourself, don't even consider it.

If you genuinely want a car to do what your mates are doing in midsized utes, buy a midsize ute or wagon (wagons are cheaper) like the prado or pajero you were considering. Don't buy a Vitara because you like the look of it, buy the best looking car that does the job you need. This position gets me in trouble with suzuki "enthusiasts" who think a suzuki is the answer for every question, but I think buying a car that is the right tool for the job is better than trying to defend a car that isn't very good at something. Like touring. Yes, it's been done. I know of a guy who took a LWB vitara down the canning stock route, alone. Just because he did it doesn't mean he had the right car for the job (and the evidence that he did it alone should be enough to understand his decision making skills)

Vitaras are decent urban vehicles with light to medium 4WDing capability. There are some quirks of their design that were exploited by 4WDer's to get them further offroad than was probably prudent, the biggest being no rebound stops on the front suspension, so the front can be made to flex well and the expense of CV's, but this sort of work is pretty advanced and expensive. I've helped build and driven vitaras in some pretty technical 4WDing and know them quite well mechanically, but whether what you're trying to do with the car is reasonable depends on this:

Quote:

what sort of mods would I be looking at to be able to keep up with my mates Hilux's and Rangers? (I don't have to do the hardcore stuff but just to do moderate level offroading)

Sorry if this sounds like I'm being facetious, but I don't know what any of that means. Keep up on road? Off road? keep up when laden for touring? Don't know what moderate 4WD means, for you or for them. What you're basically asking, as far as I can tell, is "to perform the same" and the answer is it won't and can't. It's a smaller, lighter car with lighter duty running gear and far less payload, so to do the same job, you'll be working the car harder, and trying to do a job that it wasn't designed to do. That doesn't mean you can't have fun, but it won't be as reliable, you won't be carrying as much, you'll be driving the car harder, and you'll have to do more modifications, most likely to the point where you're reluctant to use the car much because of the amount of work you have to do to keep it running, or how modified it is.

Quote:

I prefer the idea of the larger 2.5 v6 but it's not engineered, I'm pretty sure that being an optioned engine it doesn't have to be but figured id better check with you guys (located in VIC).

it was not an optioned engine in a 1st generation Vitara. It exceeds the capacity increase and power increase to avoid an engineering certificate. It needs certification. How it's been done in terms of ECU etc is all unknown - theres lots of scope for different ways to do this and better or worse outcomes. Expect to have to do lots of work to understand how and what was done.

Quote:

Seen a few 2nd Gens which are cheaper with less K's, I'm guessing it's because they're worse off-road and don't have the same aesthetic/classic vibe? (no offence intended to 2nd gen owners happy to be corrected)

If, by "2nd gen" you mean the Grand Vitara, they're not worse off road. I can't comment on aesthetics. They're likely cheaper because there's now more of them around and they're pretty worn out. The GV has superior rear suspension which improves handling and ride. about the only disadvantage is added bulk and the rack and pinion steering is considered less suited to hard off road work, but I think that's a bit of a myth.

Quote:

What would be a better move, taking into account fuel economy etc, budgets around 6k but I'm willing to go a bit over?

You're not comparing apples with apples. One is ready to go, one is a project. There are lots of potential issues with the H25 swapped car, not to mention it has high kms. Throw in moderate 4WDing and it could be very expensive to troubleshoot. The H25 car will be thirstier, but you're not talking about economical cars in any case. The H25 car will cost around $1K for engineering, +RWC + reg so you have to consider circa $2K on top of purchase price before you fix anything or work out what's wrong with the conversion. The G16 car will be cheaper to own and to keep running.

Quote:

How does the 1.6l go it sounds like it could be a bit underpowered, any bolt-on swap options like the H20 to H25 or easily turbocharged? Is it as reliable as the H series engines?

There are no bolt on swap options for the G engined cars- G16B was already the biggest/most powerful variant of the G engine. Turbocharging will cost $5-8K for a semi-reliable outcome. They're not an engine that likes boost. Who said H engines are reliable? They throw timing chains due to tensioner failure, which is expensive. They all do it. If they've been replaced in the engine fitted to the car you're looking at, great, but personally, I think the H engine is poorly suited to a 4WD, it's overly complex and suffers from typically wonky V6 power delivery - with dips and troughs, no stroke etc. It was a "high feature" engine for the urban JDM market. (it's a reworked Astina/Eunos engine)

All up, the G16 car is the better buy in my opinion, but I'm not convinced it's the right car for your use.

Thanks for the heads up. The H25 I wouldnt buy without a roady so it wouldnt be a propper project unless you consider modding which I'm confident I can do.
Yeah definity happy with keeping up on road with the Rangers and Lux's it was the offroad stuff I wanted to be able to tag along with, I was planning on doing the basic lift, bullbar snorkel etc and save up for an ARB diff locker. Had heard that vitara's where capable of mid level off roading, seen a few impressive videos but I'm sure theyre modded to hell. I guess that could just be the fanboys piping up saying they can keep up offroad which is a shame, liked the idea of something a bit smaller that could double as a daily so I dont need two cars but if the Vit won't cope offroad its not what I need.
Guess a few of the things I've read are wrong but I'd rather know before I buy.

[vet 180]

JML wrote:

Gwagensteve wrote:

This is going to sounds a bit negative, but I'm just trying to be pragmatic. Lots of people end up using cars they bought for jobs they weren't really designed for, and enjoy that process, but that's often because they inadvertently bought the wrong car for the job to start with and they're stuck with it, their needs changed and they can't justify selling their car, or the "right" car for the job doesn't exist (which is sort of where I'm at)

I don't know anything about your mechanical ability, or access to tools, but be very cautious about buying a project. Generally, every cent will get burned up just making it functional, you'll have nothing left to spend on making it better. This is almost always the case for 25 year old cars, but even more so for something that's been converted or otherwise modified in unknown ways. If you can't do the work yourself, don't even consider it.

If you genuinely want a car to do what your mates are doing in midsized utes, buy a midsize ute or wagon (wagons are cheaper) like the prado or pajero you were considering. Don't buy a Vitara because you like the look of it, buy the best looking car that does the job you need. This position gets me in trouble with suzuki "enthusiasts" who think a suzuki is the answer for every question, but I think buying a car that is the right tool for the job is better than trying to defend a car that isn't very good at something. Like touring. Yes, it's been done. I know of a guy who took a LWB vitara down the canning stock route, alone. Just because he did it doesn't mean he had the right car for the job (and the evidence that he did it alone should be enough to understand his decision making skills)

Vitaras are decent urban vehicles with light to medium 4WDing capability. There are some quirks of their design that were exploited by 4WDer's to get them further offroad than was probably prudent, the biggest being no rebound stops on the front suspension, so the front can be made to flex well and the expense of CV's, but this sort of work is pretty advanced and expensive. I've helped build and driven vitaras in some pretty technical 4WDing and know them quite well mechanically, but whether what you're trying to do with the car is reasonable depends on this:

Quote:

what sort of mods would I be looking at to be able to keep up with my mates Hilux's and Rangers? (I don't have to do the hardcore stuff but just to do moderate level offroading)

Sorry if this sounds like I'm being facetious, but I don't know what any of that means. Keep up on road? Off road? keep up when laden for touring? Don't know what moderate 4WD means, for you or for them. What you're basically asking, as far as I can tell, is "to perform the same" and the answer is it won't and can't. It's a smaller, lighter car with lighter duty running gear and far less payload, so to do the same job, you'll be working the car harder, and trying to do a job that it wasn't designed to do. That doesn't mean you can't have fun, but it won't be as reliable, you won't be carrying as much, you'll be driving the car harder, and you'll have to do more modifications, most likely to the point where you're reluctant to use the car much because of the amount of work you have to do to keep it running, or how modified it is.

Quote:

I prefer the idea of the larger 2.5 v6 but it's not engineered, I'm pretty sure that being an optioned engine it doesn't have to be but figured id better check with you guys (located in VIC).

it was not an optioned engine in a 1st generation Vitara. It exceeds the capacity increase and power increase to avoid an engineering certificate. It needs certification. How it's been done in terms of ECU etc is all unknown - theres lots of scope for different ways to do this and better or worse outcomes. Expect to have to do lots of work to understand how and what was done.

Quote:

Seen a few 2nd Gens which are cheaper with less K's, I'm guessing it's because they're worse off-road and don't have the same aesthetic/classic vibe? (no offence intended to 2nd gen owners happy to be corrected)

If, by "2nd gen" you mean the Grand Vitara, they're not worse off road. I can't comment on aesthetics. They're likely cheaper because there's now more of them around and they're pretty worn out. The GV has superior rear suspension which improves handling and ride. about the only disadvantage is added bulk and the rack and pinion steering is considered less suited to hard off road work, but I think that's a bit of a myth.

Quote:

What would be a better move, taking into account fuel economy etc, budgets around 6k but I'm willing to go a bit over?

You're not comparing apples with apples. One is ready to go, one is a project. There are lots of potential issues with the H25 swapped car, not to mention it has high kms. Throw in moderate 4WDing and it could be very expensive to troubleshoot. The H25 car will be thirstier, but you're not talking about economical cars in any case. The H25 car will cost around $1K for engineering, +RWC + reg so you have to consider circa $2K on top of purchase price before you fix anything or work out what's wrong with the conversion. The G16 car will be cheaper to own and to keep running.

Quote:

How does the 1.6l go it sounds like it could be a bit underpowered, any bolt-on swap options like the H20 to H25 or easily turbocharged? Is it as reliable as the H series engines?

There are no bolt on swap options for the G engined cars- G16B was already the biggest/most powerful variant of the G engine. Turbocharging will cost $5-8K for a semi-reliable outcome. They're not an engine that likes boost. Who said H engines are reliable? They throw timing chains due to tensioner failure, which is expensive. They all do it. If they've been replaced in the engine fitted to the car you're looking at, great, but personally, I think the H engine is poorly suited to a 4WD, it's overly complex and suffers from typically wonky V6 power delivery - with dips and troughs, no stroke etc. It was a "high feature" engine for the urban JDM market. (it's a reworked Astina/Eunos engine)

All up, the G16 car is the better buy in my opinion, but I'm not convinced it's the right car for your use.

Thanks for the heads up. The H25 I wouldnt buy without a roady so it wouldnt be a propper project unless you consider modding which I'm confident I can do.
Yeah definity happy with keeping up on road with the Rangers and Lux's it was the offroad stuff I wanted to be able to tag along with, I was planning on doing the basic lift, bullbar snorkel etc and save up for an ARB diff locker. Had heard that vitara's where capable of mid level off roading, seen a few impressive videos but I'm sure theyre modded to hell. I guess that could just be the fanboys piping up saying they can keep up offroad which is a shame, liked the idea of something a bit smaller that could double as a daily so I dont need two cars but if the Vit won't cope offroad its not what I need.
Guess a few of the things I've read are wrong but I'd rather know before I buy.

Vitara's will keep up offroad with hiluxes and rangers and can outperform them, you didnt actually specify which generation as there is a very big difference in the capability offroad of a hilux and ranger depending on year some are garbage so i will keep my statement very blanket also, however the later will make far better tourers.

If you want a vehicle to double as a daily, throw in a case of beer, tent, sleeping bag, esky and a duffel bag and do the occasional weekend trip then the vitara is a great choice. If you want a vehicle to load up with 600kg of accessories, heavy roof top tents, draws filled with crap to last 6 month in the wilderness and 200 liters of water like every 4x4 enthusiast thinks they need then its not your car.

Personally out of tge vitaras I think the GV's are the best value for money. Prob because they are the ugly duckling. But the widebody first gens are great value to with a little less weight and decent engine options. The first gen 1.6's are the worst value, they just seem to have the most enthusiast following. I guess they are a bit lighter than the widebodys and lighter is often more capable.

Sent from my SM-N960N using Tapatalk

[Gwagensteve]

The H25 car doesn't need a roady, it needs an engineers certificate. And even with both of those, they aren't evidence that the conversion has been done properly, only the car meets certain minimum standards.

I don't intend to get into an argument about how capable Vitaras are, yes, they're fine. Lightly laden and driven well, yes, they could probably go most of the places a Ranger or Hilux could go. The key issue is, you'll be working he car much harder to do that than the hilux or ranger driver, and that means you're more likely to hurt the car. It's the same with vitaras on trips with Sierras.

However, a Vitara is a 25 year old, light duty vehicle. getting it to keep up with a hilux or ranger is gong to make it maintenance intensive to own. You might get away with the weekend trips/daily driving for a few months and then the maintenance work will start creeping in. I've seen this play our far too many times - the panic on a Sunday night because the alternator has died in the bush or it's dropped a driver's side CV and you can't get it to work on Monday. The fact this forum exists is due to enthusiast owners who want to fix and understand their cars themselves, largely because that's what needs to happen, it's not cost effective (or on some cases, practical) to pay people to do this work, because these cars are old and need lots of love. To be honest, a 1.6 vitara is now beyond it's service life. The car I got as a donor for my Sierra was pretty typical - it wasn't in bad condition, had been looked after, and had ~240K on it. The engine was tired (and still is), there was rust around the windscreen that couldn't be seen, and under the battery tray. Everything worked, but it was tatty and would have cost far more than it's worth to repair. That was 10 years ago.

As Vet180 points out, the 1.6 cars are dear because they're the cheapest to keep running and the least problematic. They aren't as hard on their driveline, they have the easiest/best part availability, and the best aftermarket support.

You'll need to be looking at the top of the market if you expect daily service without excessive maintenance. Those cars are out there, but they will test your budget.

A 1.6 Vitara won't keep up with a later model hilux or ranger on road when laden. A H20 car will struggle. A H25 GV, particularly the later version, will do OK. I'd definitely consider one for your application.

[MrRocky]

I like the 1.6 auto early vit wagons
Easy to work on and parts are cheap.
Just check the cooling system over and also look for coolant weep on the block under the exhaust manifold as they are known for hairline cracks there that weep coolant.
Keep in mind with the older cars, hoses are prone to splitting with age, it pays to drop some $$$ on mantainance initially.

[JML]

Cheers @Gwagensteve if it gets an enginering cert it wil still need a roady to change onwership I'm pretty sure? Not trying to argue just confused as I've heard a few people say they're very capable, but I get your point its not that they cant do it its just that it stresses the car more so I'll probably steer clear of a suzuki for now, would love a new Jimny 5 door but the bank account doesn't agree. It's good to get an honest evalutation snaps you back to reality, cheers.

[shakes]

JML wrote:

Cheers @Gwagensteve if it gets an enginering cert it wil still need a roady to change onwership I'm pretty sure? Not trying to argue just confused as I've heard a few people say they're very capable, but I get your point its not that they cant do it its just that it stresses the car more so I'll probably steer clear of a suzuki for now, would love a new Jimny 5 door but the bank account doesn't agree. It's good to get an honest evalutation snaps you back to reality, cheers.

It all comes down to how you travel and what you take enjoyment from.

Throw in your kings swag, 500kg of chairs, eskys, gazebo, kitchen sink etc. 700km days to get to your campsite. Serviced at a mechanics, all parts must bolt on - Pajero/Prado/Etc

Throw in your hiking backpack, sit on the limiter all day, do all work yourself and enjoy the masochism involved in doing big days in small cars and can cope with 'thats a hairdressers car' comments - Suzuki.

The closest 'split the difference' car would be a 99-2005 Grand Vitara, With some mods will be the most fun driving the hard stuff and comfier on long trips. But still involve working on it yourself and not being able to bolt a catalogue onto it.