[Brazen]

Has anyone thought to throw in a more powerful Fuel Pump to help the injectors with lean running at high rpm? The higher available fuel pressure can only assist the power curve such that air starvation is reduced as you approach critical point of running lean?

[sideways]

Brazen wrote:

Has anyone thought to throw in a more powerful Fuel Pump to help the injectors with lean running at high rpm? The higher available fuel pressure can only assist the power curve such that air starvation is reduced as you approach critical point of running lean?

It's not necessary. The pump is more than capable of fueling an M18, the same pump is fitted to many vehicles with larger and more powerful engines.

[Gwagensteve]

Increasing fuel pressure will make the car run rich under all circumstances, not just at high load. The ECU doesn’t monitor fuel pressure, it can’t adjust for it.

[Brazen]

Gwagensteve wrote:

Increasing fuel pressure will make the car run rich under all circumstances, not just at high load. The ECU doesn’t monitor fuel pressure, it can’t adjust for it.

The ECU monitors sensors incl oxygen sensor and, if it's running rich for example, will reduce fuel by reducing the amount of time the injectors open.

In a running lean scenario it'll increase the time of injector operation. But if there's an increased need for fuel, such as putting in a larger engine (larger demand) and if the ECU operating parameters (for time) can't meet that demand, the engine will stay lean. This has been happening for engines swapped, usually at high revs and certainly for the extra engine capacity being increased.

So, a higher standard operating fuel pressure will allow that ECU to do what it's always done and for the ECU/injector limitation to be removed.

It's a reasonable idea. Fuel injection specialists advocate implementing fuel pressure increase to meet loads/capacities/induction increased demand.

I'm not saying that the Jimny standard fuel pump isn't up to the demand, I don't know if it is or not. But if its not, a new pump producing higher pressure would be good, remembering that in rich conditions, at high rpm, the ECU can reduce injector operation via reducing time its open.

Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree. Was just wondering if anyone has tried it. No-one in this thread seems to have discussed it yet... Just thinking outside the box

[Gwagensteve]

Firstly, increased fuel pressure isn't the job the pump, it's the job of the fuel pressure regulator. If fuel pressure can't be maintained at the new fuel pressure, then there is a case for a pump with more flow, but as Sideways points out, the stock pump will likely support far more power than even an M18 can make.

The O2 sensor is only referenced at steady, light throttle, the computer doesn't look at it under acceleration or large throttle openings, that fuel and timing table is preset.

Increasing fuel pressure is a very coarse tool for tuning because it will add X% more fuel everywhere on the fuel table. You can't bump fuel pressure and then trust the computer to work out how to fuel the car, because the stock ECU isn't designed to accomodate non standard parts. (if it did, it would be able to compensate for a larger capacity engine because it would see the lean condition and adjust to suit)

So the process would require an adjustable FPR to be fitted and the car dynoed, watching the A/F and tweaking the FPR until the desired lambda was achieved. (lets assume, at WOT) I would suggest outside of whatever condition the car was tuned for the results will be poor.

To adjust for changes in fuel pressure an aftermarket ECU would be required that will aim for a certain A/F by looking at the 02 sensor at all times to trim fuel. This is how the basic "learning" universal EFI systems (FAST, Holley etc) work - they don't know anything about the engine other than some basic inputs, they just chase a certain A/F.

[Brazen]

Gwagensteve wrote:

Firstly, increased fuel pressure isn't the job the pump, it's the job of the fuel pressure regulator. If fuel pressure can't be maintained at the new fuel pressure, then there is a case for a pump with more flow, but as Sideways points out, the stock pump will likely support far more power than even an M18 can make.

The O2 sensor is only referenced at steady, light throttle, the computer doesn't look at it under acceleration or large throttle openings, that fuel and timing table is preset.

Increasing fuel pressure is a very coarse tool for tuning because it will add X% more fuel everywhere on the fuel table. You can't bump fuel pressure and then trust the computer to work out how to fuel the car, because the stock ECU isn't designed to accomodate non standard parts. (if it did, it would be able to compensate for a larger capacity engine because it would see the lean condition and adjust to suit)

So the process would require an adjustable FPR to be fitted and the car dynoed, watching the A/F and tweaking the FPR until the desired lambda was achieved. (lets assume, at WOT) I would suggest outside of whatever condition the car was tuned for the results will be poor.

To adjust for changes in fuel pressure an aftermarket ECU would be required that will aim for a certain A/F by looking at the 02 sensor at all times to trim fuel. This is how the basic "learning" universal EFI systems (FAST, Holley etc) work - they don't know anything about the engine other than some basic inputs, they just chase a certain A/F.

I see. Thanks for the clear explanation.

[Brazen]

Ive just put a 2021 Grand Vitara M16a engine in with just 2365 kms on it.

Switching out the trigger wheel (sensor plate) is simply a case of, when it's flipped over and the oil sump is off, remove the oil pickup as usual, then remove the pump on the rear of the block which is very easy to do, unbolt the 5x main bearings being careful to keep them in correct order along with their respective plain bearings and 1x thrust bearing, carefully llift the crankshaft out, remove the 3x small torx bolts holding the trigger wheel and that's it, reverse all that to finish the job. The manual has all the relevant instructions and torque settings.

I did have to swap over and weld 3x engine mount lugs because the new block didn't have these but that's about it. Nothing too difficult really.

I reused my M13a head incl M13a injectors which completely eliminates the problem with the missing EGR and the heater outlet differences. I also kept the manifolds attached to the M13a head which saves a lot of time. I actually removed/replaced the engine without the head which is much easier - the engine block weighs very little which makes it easy to manoeuvre and pop out. I also split the engine mounts in two sections which makes fitting much easier because it won't snag on the engine bay receiver plate. Refitting the head and timing chain work was done in situ with the engine in the bay which was also not difficult. The manual is really pretty easy to follow. Good tools are essential.

Car runs perfect. No pinging or knocking and fuel Trims are STFT +0.3 LTFT - 5 ish at idle.

So screw using old pre-2010 engines with 200,000 kms. Do this instead. Get an almost brand new engine for cheaper and better results!

[Boomstickz]

M Series Throttle Sizes:

(I've ignored the electric throttles, just the cable units on the vertical mount Alloy inlet manifolds)

M13 - Ignis MH - 45mm
M15 - Holden YG - 45mm
M15 - Swift 1.5 - 45mm
M16 - Liana 1.6 - 48mm (non VVT)
M16 - Swift 1.6 - 45mm
M18 - Liana 1.8 - 54mm

I guess there is the temptation to put a 54mm throttle on a 1300 and call it an "upgrade".

Just remember a bigger throttle body does give you lower air velocity levels at low/mid range RPM's, so you might loose a bit of bottom end drive - ability:

Think of the reason for systems like the old Toyota TVIS or Nissan NICS (secondary butterflies to "choke" the motor) -- This is pre VVT.

I'd hazard a guess that the M-Series factory VVT map works in conjunction with a large throttle on some of the engines listed (sort of like the Nissan NCVS on a RB25). From what I can see the M engines don't use staggered inlet lobes on the non-vvt camshafts ala 16v Alfa Boxer.

If you have a non VVT motor, the Liana M16, 48mm throttle might be the best bet.

I have a 54mm Throttle that I'll be using on a M15 in a YG, I'll report back once I swap out the body from the standard YG Unit.

[muzza@muzza.net]

Hi all. Newbie here and first post.

Is there an archive somewhere with the original post's photos still visible? I've been scrolling through this thread up to about page 5 and a lot of the photos are no longer visible.

[Andygoodbloke]

Old Mechanic trick for undoing the crank pulley bolts

Before removing the old engine find the correct single hex socket and a long power/ breaker bar, maybe an over bar extension if too far from the ground, I found half a jack handle works well if a 2 piece one.
Use the starter motor, place the bar on the correct side so when the starter turns the motor over it pushes against the bar to the ground and instantly loosens it. - just flick the starter, or disconnect the coils / plugs don't run the engine

Don't try on a Honda

Cheers Andy

[NuggetLiana]

Apologies in advance if this has already been asked. With the m18a engine, what sort of parts can be taken off the zc32s swift sports which has the m16a engine in it?

[Andri1411]

Hello! I just did a swap over to a 2014 m16a engine and I am getting an error on camshaft position sensor, tried both the cam and crank sensor from the new motor and the jimny. I have also changed the crankshaft sensor wheel. Any ideas?

[shellcase]

Hi everyone,
So a few weeks ago i shoved an M16A into my 2007 Jimny.
It's a vvt one from a european suzuki Liana/Sx4 (107bhp version).
Basically used all jimny peripherials except the injectors that are the m16a ones.

the car is running fine, but feels like the highway gains are not as big as the midrange.
also i have intermittent knock sensor high reading code popping up and small missfires on idle.
I checked the O2 data and it seems to correspond with running lean on idle:

(bottom left) and the fuel trim is at negative 12-13.
while acclerating, the O2 values are at 0.9V static, which means that it's rich.

So i was wondering if what my car needs is just more air? A good tune?