[royce]

Is there anything in this thread, or anywhere else detailing the differences between different M series heads, valve size, port size, combustion chamber cc's etc?
Specifically M16 VVT from a Swift Sport and M18 VVT.

[zukenutter]

royce wrote:

Is there anything in this thread, or anywhere else detailing the differences between different M series heads, valve size, port size, combustion chamber cc's etc?
Specifically M16 VVT from a Swift Sport and M18 VVT.

I don't think so.

[Fearl3SSOne]

This was a great read..

The 1st post of this thread explaining everything(It was like we where doing it all over again), stuff we did on the fly without reading up on it as almost exactly spot on..
M18a is a fairly simple swap.
But we have been looking at the whole Engine management "issue". And I have found a Solution.

However 1 small problem.. We don't have Suzuki Liana's or SX4's with the M18a in our country, and the m18a engine is a "Import Motor" .

We have found a company that can have the M13a's map file overwritten by a m18a map on the m31a's ecu. without having to install and doing rewiring of the m18a ecu, like being suggested on this forum as well.

But in order to do that I would require a Stock M18a Ecu. or Stock M18a ECU Map file that contains all the stock parameters.

Where would I be able to source the m18a ECU? I have family in Australia and New Zealand, thus it is a matter of Sending them to a place where they will be able to buy said ECU and Courier it to me, then I can have the company look into cloning the management map onto a m13a management. Stock Flash would be the obvious base line to work from.

Regards.

[zukenutter]

Fearl3SSOne wrote:

This was a great read..

The 1st post of this thread explaining everything(It was like we where doing it all over again), stuff we did on the fly without reading up on it as almost exactly spot on..
M18a is a fairly simple swap.
But we have been looking at the whole Engine management "issue". And I have found a Solution.

However 1 small problem.. We don't have Suzuki Liana's or SX4's with the M18a in our country, and the m18a engine is a "Import Motor" .

We have found a company that can have the M13a's map file overwritten by a m18a map on the m31a's ecu. without having to install and doing rewiring of the m18a ecu, like being suggested on this forum as well.

But in order to do that I would require a Stock M18a Ecu. or Stock M18a ECU Map file that contains all the stock parameters.

Where would I be able to source the m18a ECU? I have family in Australia and New Zealand, thus it is a matter of Sending them to a place where they will be able to buy said ECU and Courier it to me, then I can have the company look into cloning the management map onto a m13a management. Stock Flash would be the obvious base line to work from.

Regards.

Most people here who've done the swap just run the 1.3 ecu. Only a couple of people tried to swap in the Liana ECU which didn't go well. It would be great to run the 1.8 mapping but I've never felt the need for the trouble or expense. Mine has done almost 100,000 with the Jimny ECU, there were some bugs that needed ironing out but it runs sweet.

[vet 180]

Fearl3SSOne wrote:

This was a great read..

The 1st post of this thread explaining everything(It was like we where doing it all over again), stuff we did on the fly without reading up on it as almost exactly spot on..
M18a is a fairly simple swap.
But we have been looking at the whole Engine management "issue". And I have found a Solution.

However 1 small problem.. We don't have Suzuki Liana's or SX4's with the M18a in our country, and the m18a engine is a "Import Motor" .

We have found a company that can have the M13a's map file overwritten by a m18a map on the m31a's ecu. without having to install and doing rewiring of the m18a ecu, like being suggested on this forum as well.

But in order to do that I would require a Stock M18a Ecu. or Stock M18a ECU Map file that contains all the stock parameters.

Where would I be able to source the m18a ECU? I have family in Australia and New Zealand, thus it is a matter of Sending them to a place where they will be able to buy said ECU and Courier it to me, then I can have the company look into cloning the management map onto a m13a management. Stock Flash would be the obvious base line to work from.

Regards.

If there in Aus upull it may be an option. Or get them to puf a post up on a suzuki facebook group as the ecu would end up in the bin most of the time after a conversion is done using a whole car.

I wohld also start a thread here 'does anyone have a liana ecu' as someone might have it sitting in their garage after doing the swap years ago.

But in all seriousness if they have the ability to flash a M13 ecu all they need is a car with the conversion done as they will be able to use the M13 map as a base and improve from there
Sent from my SM-N960N using Tapatalk

[Fearl3SSOne]

vet 180 wrote:

Fearl3SSOne wrote:

This was a great read..

The 1st post of this thread explaining everything(It was like we where doing it all over again), stuff we did on the fly without reading up on it as almost exactly spot on..
M18a is a fairly simple swap.
But we have been looking at the whole Engine management "issue". And I have found a Solution.

However 1 small problem.. We don't have Suzuki Liana's or SX4's with the M18a in our country, and the m18a engine is a "Import Motor" .

We have found a company that can have the M13a's map file overwritten by a m18a map on the m31a's ecu. without having to install and doing rewiring of the m18a ecu, like being suggested on this forum as well.

But in order to do that I would require a Stock M18a Ecu. or Stock M18a ECU Map file that contains all the stock parameters.

Where would I be able to source the m18a ECU? I have family in Australia and New Zealand, thus it is a matter of Sending them to a place where they will be able to buy said ECU and Courier it to me, then I can have the company look into cloning the management map onto a m13a management. Stock Flash would be the obvious base line to work from.

Regards.

If there in Aus upull it may be an option. Or get them to puf a post up on a suzuki facebook group as the ecu would end up in the bin most of the time after a conversion is done using a whole car.

I wohld also start a thread here 'does anyone have a liana ecu' as someone might have it sitting in their garage after doing the swap years ago.

But in all seriousness if they have the ability to flash a M13 ecu all they need is a car with the conversion done as they will be able to use the M13 map as a base and improve from there
Sent from my SM-N960N using Tapatalk

Unfortunately the guys we have can't dyno tune it at all. they can do a map replacement sent by their UK counter parts only. so it is a tidious process. and basically the only one we have.

They can clone the ecu map and overwrite it..

the thing I like about the overwrite of the map part is that you use your jimny ecu and don't need to cut into the wiring harness. (I am confident cutting into the harness, as I have built quite some knowledge about the jimny harness when I installed it into my Sierra..).
but ye. I will start a post.
Seems like this forum is quite active still.

On FB things gets "lost".

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

[tim80z]

The M18A runs fine on the M13A ECU with no reflashing and no wiring loom changes. There are probably some minor performance or efficiency gains in reflashing but it is not something that has to be done for this engine swap.

- Tim.

[Fearl3SSOne]

tim80z wrote:

The M18A runs fine on the M13A ECU with no reflashing and no wiring loom changes. There are probably some minor performance or efficiency gains in reflashing but it is not something that has to be done for this engine swap.

- Tim.

But it can run much better.. So I am willing to give it a bash on the m18a swopped jimny to flash a liana's map onto a Jimny's ecu map..

Most of those here by us(south-africa) who has done a m18a seem to have a inconsistent rich and lean running through the rev range.. (we sit 1400m + above sea level.). So it would be beneficial to get some better fuel consumption and power out of it with a m18a stock reflash. and then one can start to play around with it, once the stock m18a map is loaded.



Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

[zukenutter]

Fearl3SSOne wrote:

Most of those here by us(south-africa) who has done a m18a seem to have a inconsistent rich and lean running through the rev range.. (we sit 1400m + above sea level.). So it would be beneficial to get some better fuel consumption and power out of it with a m18a stock reflash. and then one can start to play around with it, once the stock m18a map is loaded.

This was my fix for fuel trim issues which also solved the hesitation on take-off.

zukenutter wrote:

Finally configured an upgraded air intake that works, acceleration and response is much better and the hesitation on take off seems to be completely gone. I've been watching fuel trim and my too rich startup and high revs is no longer.

Some may say that the MAF still restricts it the same but proof is in the day-to-day running so

Grafted the Liana air box outlet into a Jimny air box lid and used the Liana throttle body inlet off the air box. MAF has been cut out of the Jimny air box and placed after the bigger diameter outlet.




Old and new intake side-by-side

[Fearl3SSOne]

zukenutter wrote:

Fearl3SSOne wrote:

Most of those here by us(south-africa) who has done a m18a seem to have a inconsistent rich and lean running through the rev range.. (we sit 1400m + above sea level.). So it would be beneficial to get some better fuel consumption and power out of it with a m18a stock reflash. and then one can start to play around with it, once the stock m18a map is loaded.

This was my fix for fuel trim issues which also solved the hesitation on take-off.

zukenutter wrote:

Finally configured an upgraded air intake that works, acceleration and response is much better and the hesitation on take off seems to be completely gone. I've been watching fuel trim and my too rich startup and high revs is no longer.

Some may say that the MAF still restricts it the same but proof is in the day-to-day running so

Grafted the Liana air box outlet into a Jimny air box lid and used the Liana throttle body inlet off the air box. MAF has been cut out of the Jimny air box and placed after the bigger diameter outlet.




Old and new intake side-by-side

The Air intake upgrade is something that we are also currently working on. as we have found it to be very restrictive, and basically have a chocking action.

Do you perhaps know what the part no is for the a Liana air filter and or perhaps have the measurements of it?



Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

[zukenutter]

Fearl3SSOne wrote:

Do you perhaps know what the part no is for the a Liana air filter and or perhaps have the measurements of it?

I'm using the Jimny air box with the Liana air box outlet cut and grafted into the jimmy air box lid. My plan was to eventually swap to a larger air box to further increase flow.
The hesitation on takeoff is caused by not enough air pressure passing through the IAC valve. I've also added a closable cold air intake which doubled the air going into the air box.

Once the MAF has been moved the air box options are very flexible.

[prolecs]

zukenutter wrote:

Next time I have the motivation to pull my gearbox I'll be swapping to Liana flywheel and clutch. Below are some comparison shots.
Freshly machined flywheel is Liana, Old and rusty is Jimny flywheel. I'm hoping to make it smoother at highway speed and maybe also achieve a bit better highway economy. Of course I'll be sacrificing some 1.8 perkiness but I think I can live with that.

Liana is about 3mm thicker than Jimny


Threaded holes and positioning pins are further from the centre on the Liana flywheel, this is why the flywheel has been swapped when doing the engine swap


The friction surface is raised on the Liana flywheel and recessed on the Jimny flywheel


Teeth are a perfect match so Jimny starter should still work

I can't find if anyone has some combination of M18 flywheel/clutch running with the Jimny box. At least I know from zukenutter's post what the physical differences are. But will it fit in the Jimny bell housing??? (I was told bigger diam wheel/ring gear so starter was the problem but not so). I have also read that the gearbox input shaft is the same diam and spline count.
To overcome any potential problems caused by the dimension differences in thickness/raised surface, could I redrill/machine the Jimny flywheel to suit the Liana clutch? OR maybe the assembled clutch on the M18 is not as thick as the Jimny, and would allow the Jimny throwout bearing to operate ok? I have the M18 clutch and flywheel on the floor so will check and advise on assembled thickness, wrt throwout bearing. Maybe someone has a Jimny clutch/flywheel on available to do a similar check

[prolecs]

M18A clutch on M18 flywheel

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[prolecs]

M18 Inlet and Ex manifold port (and gasket) sizes. (Head dimensions to come later):

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Exhaust

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20210203_125726 (Small).jpg

[zukenutter]

prolecs wrote:

M18 Inlet and Ex manifold port (and gasket) sizes. (Head dimensions to come later):

I matched in intake manifold ports to the head. Seemed to match acceleration smoother but I have no science to back that up.

zukenutter wrote:

While the intake was off I thought I'd match the manifold to the head and used the stain as my template

[prolecs]

Nicely done zukenutter, think I will do the same on the inlet. Outlet is a lot more work and my skinny extractors won't allow too much so I won't bother. The M18 standard header pipes are actually bigger than my extractor pipes. The result would probably be much less as well.
On the MAF business, I gather the M18 Liana does not use MAF? Or at least I can't see it. Using the M18 injectors means more actual fuel per pulse (rel to equiv M13), but the air flow will be measured accurately, as greater for that engine demand, so no wonder the ECU has some issues trimming it up. I wonder if a different MAF could be used in the larger diameter inlet pipe, and so bring the span back to something closer to what the ECU is looking for. Food for thought.
As your air box flow mods have made a respectable difference, I will have to do something similar. My Liana air box is different to yours, but still bigger incl. inlet/outlet. But it gets more complicated as my snorkel looks like a fair restriction too. Modifying that thru the inner guard and onward looks difficult, and I don't want to just bypass it and suck air from down low in case I drop into a deep wet hole.

[zukenutter]

prolecs wrote:

On the MAF business, I gather the M18 Liana does not use MAF? Or at least I can't see it. Using the M18 injectors means more actual fuel per pulse (rel to equiv M13), but the air flow will be measured accurately, as greater for that engine demand, so no wonder the ECU has some issues trimming it up. I wonder if a different MAF could be used in the larger diameter inlet pipe, and so bring the span back to something closer to what the ECU is looking for. Food for thought.

Yeah Liana is MAP which is why I had to use the metering section of the Jimny air box to ensure MAF was reading correctly. I tried lots of other configurations before going down this path, nothing else worked. Certainly more could be done with enough $$ but this was cheap and brought my fuel/air mix much closer to where it is supposed to be.

prolecs wrote:

As your air box flow mods have made a respectable difference, I will have to do something similar. My Liana air box is different to yours, but still bigger incl. inlet/outlet. But it gets more complicated as my snorkel looks like a fair restriction too. Modifying that thru the inner guard and onward looks difficult, and I don't want to just bypass it and suck air from down low in case I drop into a deep wet hole.

My snorkel is way too restrictive for the 1.8 so I added a cold air intake from the front of the box which I cap for off road when it's wet.

[redDU]

Hi guys, perfect thread, going to do my Jimny non-vvt M13A to M16A coverstion next week, thanks for all the info.

My Liana M16A Engine does not have one ignition coil dunno where the scrappers put it, do you suggest I use from the M13A 4 coils or should I order the one missing new M16A Liana coil?

[zukenutter]

redDU wrote:

Hi guys, perfect thread, going to do my Jimny non-vvt M13A to M16A coverstion next week, thanks for all the info.

My Liana M16A Engine does not have one ignition coil dunno where the scrappers put it, do you suggest I use from the M13A 4 coils or should I order the one missing new M16A Liana coil?

I've tried running m18a and m13a coils, seemed to not make a difference but I am running Jimny coils. It's only two coils.

[prolecs]

My cold air intake mod - 90mm pvc stormwater cap and male half. Don't forget to throw lid in the glovebox and screw it on BEFORE going duck diving!!

[jimbo_jones]

Ok so atm I’m attempting to swap a 2013 swift sport M16A in to a 2003 jimny
Owner wants to keep the swift head so as we know it will have an egr issue and constant engine light.
I’ve swapped the crank trigger wheel and the non vvt cams in
One issue I’m looking at is the water port from the head that goes to the throttle body isn’t there in the m16a do you think I could drill the m16a head and fit a barb in the spot it’s ment to be on the m13a?

[jimbo_jones]

So this was my solution to the missing hose outlet at the front the old thermostat housing has one at the back of the head so I ran the pipe back there instead

[Fearl3SSOne]

Hey there.. M-Series Fans,

So my m18a I recieved where bad and I had to wait a month and a half for a new one to come in at my Engine Importers... Long story short there they had no issues taking the motor back as I was still within their warrenty time frame..

I had endless Overheating issues with the motor.. Especially driving slowly or just when I switched off. it will over heat - 118deg easy..

So I ended up having a Bigger 42mm Copper core radiator custom built.
Returned my Exaust system to OEM. (OMW a full freeflow and branches wakes up that M18a like you cannot bellieve).
Changed the water pump twice,
Changed the Thermostat Twice..
Nothing worked, so I returned the engine..

This weekend we got the new motor instaled.. Some Copperslip landed on the clutch plate, and now I have a slipping clutch.. removed the gearbox and cleaned clutch, Presure plate and Flywheel - Clutch slip was better for 2km.. then it started again.. not so bad but it was there.
This was a brand new clutch...

So I could not test the "new" motor out properly, however it started the moment turned that key. Like it was never swopped (I kept the previous M18a's TB as it was already configured correctly). By mistake gave away the m13a fuel rail and oil filter plug... But that was no biggy. I just extended my fuel feed and return lines. to get to the m18a fuel rail. So all thumbs that this one wil be running better..

I was also able to import a M18a Ecu. So once I have my Clutch replaced will see what I can get with the Remapping the Jimny ecu to the M18a ECU..

However - Seeing that I need to get a New Clutch.. I am looking into options..
M13a , M15a, M16a , M16a Swiftsport Zc31s and Zc32s Clutches is sligthly more available in South-Africa.
So I will be measuring up a M18a and M16a clutch kits and flywheels as I have access to the parts at least.

Have someone else measured this up and can confirm they are the same or close to it? And what did you do To fit them, as I have noticed that ther is like a 5mm diffrence between the entire kit and it compresses agains the thustbearing the whole time.

[Fearl3SSOne]

Fearl3SSOne wrote:

Hey there.. M-Series Fans,

So my m18a I recieved where bad and I had to wait a month and a half for a new one to come in at my Engine Importers... Long story short there they had no issues taking the motor back as I was still within their warrenty time frame..

I had endless Overheating issues with the motor.. Especially driving slowly or just when I switched off. it will over heat - 118deg easy..

So I ended up having a Bigger 42mm Copper core radiator custom built.
Returned my Exaust system to OEM. (OMW a full freeflow and branches wakes up that M18a like you cannot bellieve).
Changed the water pump twice,
Changed the Thermostat Twice..
Nothing worked, so I returned the engine..

This weekend we got the new motor instaled.. Some Copperslip landed on the clutch plate, and now I have a slipping clutch.. removed the gearbox and cleaned clutch, Presure plate and Flywheel - Clutch slip was better for 2km.. then it started again.. not so bad but it was there.
This was a brand new clutch...

So I could not test the "new" motor out properly, however it started the moment turned that key. Like it was never swopped (I kept the previous M18a's TB as it was already configured correctly). By mistake gave away the m13a fuel rail and oil filter plug... But that was no biggy. I just extended my fuel feed and return lines. to get to the m18a fuel rail. So all thumbs that this one wil be running better..

I was also able to import a M18a Ecu. So once I have my Clutch replaced will see what I can get with the Remapping the Jimny ecu to the M18a ECU..

However - Seeing that I need to get a New Clutch.. I am looking into options..
M13a , M15a, M16a , M16a Swiftsport Zc31s and Zc32s Clutches is sligthly more available in South-Africa.
So I will be measuring up a M18a and M16a clutch kits and flywheels as I have access to the parts at least.

Have someone else measured this up and can confirm they are the same or close to it? And what did you do To fit them, as I have noticed that ther is like a 5mm diffrence between the entire kit and it compresses agains the thustbearing the whole time.

Managed to Source a swiftsport clutch kit and flywheel.

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

[prolecs]

Hi,
In the course of doing a swap, I chased down a lot of part numbers and part sizes. They are collated in the attached table. It's not compete and there may be errors, so please advise and I will correct it.
Being Suzuki, there are lots of variations in the M series engines, esp the M16A, so this is way short of all permutations. You are welcome to add to it.
The later Swift M16's (and maybe others) have different head casting so far as water and EGR at least. Also the crank position index wheel is different. WTF did Suzuki do that for? And while it can be swapped, it means removing the crank to do so. It seems the camshaft index is the same throughout.
Parts catalogue used was from Megaz, for Australian vehicles 2010 Jimny SN413, and 2004 Liana RH418.
Have fun!!

[Jakob]

Hi, I am looking into a M15A swap on a 2006 Jimny. Anybody done this conversion with a 2008 or newer Swift engine with the Euronorm 4 and will that cause any problems? Would it be safer to do it with a pre 2008 engine?

[Smokedink76]

Please help!

Just finished the m18a conversion and im having heaps of issues. Its idle is either high at 1200 or low when slowing during drive to the point its stalling. I used m18 injectors, throttle body and intake. Cleaned all the gunk out of absolute everything and every sensor. Have checked for vacuum leaks. Ive had a few error codes. The first being throttle position sensor which i changed and is now fine and more recently was running too lean. The stalling is driving me nuts. Anyone had this and fixed this issue.

[jimbo_jones]

Smokedink76 wrote:

Please help!

Just finished the m18a conversion and im having heaps of issues. Its idle is either high at 1200 or low when slowing during drive to the point its stalling. I used m18 injectors, throttle body and intake. Cleaned all the gunk out of absolute everything and every sensor. Have checked for vacuum leaks. Ive had a few error codes. The first being throttle position sensor which i changed and is now fine and more recently was running too lean. The stalling is driving me nuts. Anyone had this and fixed this issue.

Idle control valve pull it off and give it a clean

[Brazen]

Rivar wrote:

Some information to update post 1.

I have just finished putting in the M16A directly out of the Swift Sport. There are a number of things you need to do different from the rest of the M series motors.

You have to use the M13A head on the M16A block, due to the M16A head not having the EGR valve. The ports are physically not in the head. I used the complete m13a head. Not sure what the difference is with the cams, but the intake and exhaust valves are exactly the same size. Howver, the intake and exhaust ports on the m13a head are bigger. This doesn't mean more power is going to be made, but its something to investigate.

Then the shower stopper...on all other M series engines, except the swift sport m16a, the timing gear on the crank is the same. To get the m16a to run on the m13a ecu, you need to swap this gear from the m13a crank to the m16a crank.

Simple as that.

Fired up on the first crank and running well, however there is some pinging. My jimny is currently at the exhaust shop for a full branch and 57mm exhaust, following that it will go to the tuner for a chip to adjust fueling and timing.

You should really carify that this problem with the timing gear (trigger wheel) and missing EGR valve is only true for post 2010 Swift engines, hence not a problem prior to 2010 model Suzuki Swift Sport.

[Brazen]

Rivar wrote:

Some information to update post 1.

I have just finished putting in the M16A directly out of the Swift Sport. There are a number of things you need to do different from the rest of the M series motors.

You have to use the M13A head on the M16A block, due to the M16A head not having the EGR valve. The ports are physically not in the head. I used the complete m13a head. Not sure what the difference is with the cams, but the intake and exhaust valves are exactly the same size. Howver, the intake and exhaust ports on the m13a head are bigger. This doesn't mean more power is going to be made, but its something to investigate.

Then the shower stopper...on all other M series engines, except the swift sport m16a, the timing gear on the crank is the same. To get the m16a to run on the m13a ecu, you need to swap this gear from the m13a crank to the m16a crank.

Simple as that.

Fired up on the first crank and running well, however there is some pinging. My jimny is currently at the exhaust shop for a full branch and 57mm exhaust, following that it will go to the tuner for a chip to adjust fueling and timing.

You should really carify that this problem with the timing gear (trigger wheel) and missing EGR valve is only true for post 2010 Swift engines, hence not a problem prior to 2010 model Suzuki Swift Sport. EZC31S doesn't have this problem. EZC32S has this problem