[Daz7]

Fatzook wrote:

Daz7 wrote:

Question - do all lwb Vitaras have the same front discs and calipers?

Looking at ordering a set but want to know I'm getting the right ones for the conversion.

ALL 1.6L LWB vitaras have a vented rotor and caliper to suit. AFAIK, all 1.6 LWB's run the same brakes.

2.0L SWB and LWB are different again, so you'll want 89-95 LWB 1.6 vitara brakes.

Thanks!

[yz1975]

So lwb vitara front vented discs and calipers will just bolt on the front of a Sierra, with no mods needed at all?

[Rusho]

yz1975 wrote:

So lwb vitara front vented discs and calipers will just bolt on the front of a Sierra, with no mods needed at all?

You will need to trim a bit from the backing plate. Swap the calipers from left to right. Possibly need longer brake lines....not sure though

[Gwagensteve]

Rusho wrote:

yz1975 wrote:

So lwb vitara front vented discs and calipers will just bolt on the front of a Sierra, with no mods needed at all?

You will need to trim a bit from the backing plate. Swap the calipers from left to right. Possibly need longer brake lines....not sure though

Longer lines will definitely be needed. I think I 'm running mine the "right" way around (I.e left on the left and right on the right) but that's a bit suck it and see.

Steve.

[Rusho]

Gwagensteve wrote:

Rusho wrote:

yz1975 wrote:

So lwb vitara front vented discs and calipers will just bolt on the front of a Sierra, with no mods needed at all?

You will need to trim a bit from the backing plate. Swap the calipers from left to right. Possibly need longer brake lines....not sure though

Longer lines will definitely be needed. I think I 'm running mine the "right" way around (I.e left on the left and right on the right) but that's a bit suck it and see.

Steve.

I thought as much. I swapped mine around because it suited me better

[Daves4wd]

I'm running vit fronts in my sierra and can't get them to bleed right I'm running them left on left and right on right is there any chance your better of swapping sides around to get the bleed nipple higher then line that goes into the caliper?? I've tried graverty bleeding and force bleeding and nothing works can anyone shed some light on my dilemma thanks guys

[christover1]

Try removing caliper bolts, slide caliper around till bleed nipple points up, then bleed as normal.

PS don't forget to replace caliper bolts

[Daves4wd]

christover1 wrote:

Try removing caliper bolts, slide caliper around till bleed nipple points up, then bleed as normal.

PS don't forget to replace caliper bolts

Thanks Chris never thought of that one I'll give it a shot soon after I figure out where to mount my UHF hahaha you aren't just a pretty face after all hahahah thanks again

[christover1]

Lucky for me I don't have to rely on my looks LOL

[Wazz]

I may be wrong here, but when ever i've done rear drum to disc conversions, you must remove the residual valve from the master cylinder. It might not be the case here but id thought id mention it as i didn't see it anywhere.

[burls]

I've looked around and can find at least 3 kits. Ben T spidertrax and the cheap version from lowrange. So whats the pros and cons of each kit and is it worth the extra money for the more expensive kit

[whincup]

burls wrote:

I've looked around and can find at least 3 kits. Ben T spidertrax and the cheap version from lowrange. So whats the pros and cons of each kit and is it worth the extra money for the more expensive kit

cant comment on quality of the kits, but IMO its worth the extra coin for the kits that allows the handbrake to be used still

[rob45x]

Every car is different. So disc rear upgrades differ with valves and proportioning valves. I had a charade and converted rears to discs and didnt need to play with any valves. Stopped like a bullet ! But every conversion is different

[gvzookdriver]

Hey guys

I am just trying to get my rear disc engineered but he his saying that i will need vitara callipers at the rear as well?

I thought you had to have more stopping power at the front other wise the rear would lock up. I am running vitara vented at the front and standard sierra at the rear with no valves or booster upgrades at this stage...

what are peoples thoughts on this

[Blkfxx]

Have vitara all round and run a proportioning valve?

[gvzookdriver]

vented discs all round

[tmb99]

Is your location correct? I had mine inspected and mod plated by mustang sally conversions, his in Brisbane. He just checked it over and made sure the bore size of Sierra MC is the same and the Vitara. Have that info handy, I was lucky that I had a Vitara MC sitting there in the garage.

[matty_wall]

gvzookdriver wrote:

Hey guys

I am just trying to get my rear disc engineered but he his saying that i will need vitara callipers at the rear as well?

I thought you had to have more stopping power at the front other wise the rear would lock up. I am running vitara vented at the front and standard sierra at the rear with no valves or booster upgrades at this stage...

what are peoples thoughts on this

Having no valves on your rear brakes, have you had a chance to try them out? im interested to rear disc my ute but im worried the rears are going to lock up with such little weight and no valve on the rear.

[gvzookdriver]

tmb99 wrote:

Is your location correct? I had mine inspected and mod plated by mustang sally conversions, his in Brisbane. He just checked it over and made sure the bore size of Sierra MC is the same and the Vitara. Have that info handy, I was lucky that I had a Vitara MC sitting there in the garage.

Yeah location is correct. That might be some good info for me to try and find when i get the chance thanks for the info

[gvzookdriver]

matty_wall wrote:

gvzookdriver wrote:

Hey guys

I am just trying to get my rear disc engineered but he his saying that i will need vitara callipers at the rear as well?

I thought you had to have more stopping power at the front other wise the rear would lock up. I am running vitara vented at the front and standard sierra at the rear with no valves or booster upgrades at this stage...

what are peoples thoughts on this

Having no valves on your rear brakes, have you had a chance to try them out? im interested to rear disc my ute but im worried the rears are going to lock up with such little weight and no valve on the rear.

No I havent had a good chance to try it all out yet sorry

[Gwagensteve]

I'll add some of my experience in here.

I've built a few cars running sierra/sierra callipers with both the stock Sierra M/C, a Baleno M/C and the Forester GT M/C

They ALL lock the rear brakes first.

I'm now running vitara vented front/sierra rear with the Forester GT M/C and it will still lock the rears first.

I can also add that the forester GT M/C makes for a pretty heavy pedal if you're unboosted. It think it's fine, but it is noticeable, mostly holding the car on steep hills offroad. It doesn't help that I'm auto. Gregc's car runs a sierra booster with the forester M/C and his brakes aren't noticeably heavy.

Gregc's added a prop valve but runs it fully open (which is, I think, about 80% flow?) He still gets rear lockup just before front on very slippery surfaces like clay.

I'm not running a prop valve but I might get around to it. I can get some rear lockup on wet tarmac which isn't ideal. I'm 100" WB though and have very little brake dive so I'm in a better position in regards to weight transfer than most sierras.

Steve.

[matty_wall]

OK so if I go sierra rear disc and vented vit front and maybe a patrol MC (same as Forrester bore size), chances are ill need to invest in a prop valve to avoid the rear locking up first. Dang.
Currently the driver rear locks up very easily as the backing plate is bent which makes for interesting emergency braking on the tarmac, one of the reasons I wanted to rear disc while I had the rear apart.

[gvzookdriver]

Steve. Where abouts has Gregc put his proportioning valve?

[Gwagensteve]

I don't recall. I think it's in the engine bay, which makes me wonder whether he's blanked the rear prop valve out. Hmm.

Steve.

[dank]

I can also add that the Forester MC with sierra calipers all round locks up the rear (edited typo to avoid confusion).to the point where it wears out the pads on the rear twice as quick. i had lost a pad on my last trip because i didn't expect it to wear so quick.

Another good thing is that the rear disc kits capture the wheel bearing inside the housing so when you snap axles anywhere before the bearing retainer most likely you can keep driving which is what i did to get back to camp and straight back onto the trailer. An unexpected benefit that I didn't think about until I snapped a rear axle on the weekend.

[Gwagensteve]

dank wrote:

I can also add that the Forester MC with sierra calipers all round locks up the front....to the point where it wears out the pads on the rear twice as quick. i had lost a pad on my last trip because i didn't expect it to wear so quick.

Are you sure that's the right way around Dan?

I've certainly worn rear brake pads much quicker than anticipated with that setup, and I have also lost a rear pad as a result.

Steve.

[dank]

Yep typo there Steve I did mean it locks up the rear.

[burls]

So has anyone who has had the problem with the rears locking up first fixed it and what with. I am putting discs all round on my LJ81 which is definitely going ton have this problem due to weight

[jdk81]

I am currently doing a the trail tough subaru disc conversion.
I will do a write up once I finish.

I installed vit vented rotors and calipers in the front 2 years or so ago.
I put new slave cylinders and new springs and shoes etc in my rear drums a while back, to keep it running until I had time and all the parts to do my disc conversion.

I have recently done a few mods to the rear of my sierra (which reduced the rear weight significantly), and when empty the sierra locks the rear drums up first, I suspect due to the nose dive. Bar a g16 bottom end, the only non stock extra weight is the bullbar. I am running OME leaves with 5 springs in the pack. It flexes well, so I haven't taken any out.

The handbrake almost always sucks.

I will do a subaru kit write up once finish, and let you know how it brakes in perspective to my rear drums.

[jdk81]

Trail Tough Subaru brake swap.
The instructions were non existent.

Sourcing the correct calipers was a challenge.

Quality
One of the hubs wasn't cut very well, but the flaw didn't go all the way through the hole.


The same hub appeared to have been dropped.


I reamed the four 12mm holes with a 12mm drill bit, to clear the bits of junk left, so as to avoid damaging the thread on the bolts in the axle.

The leading edges which may have caused interference and poor alignment were tapered slightly with a flapper wheel. I didn't want the burred edges to risk poor mating of components. I wanted it to mount up as flush as possible.

I cleaned the surfaces and then painted them.

I tried the calipers in every orientation I could

The major issue, was clearance of the bump-stop bracket on the chassis (as shown above).

Settling for left on the left, and in stock Subaru mounting angles (90 degrees clockwise from the above picture).


The next major issue, was the handbrake cable is now aligned to go directly between the bump-stop and chassis.
I cut the handbrake cable brackets, and extended them 30mm. I also added more arch to them.
I dont have a good picture of the original cable bracket but hope this helps a little to notice the change


The left and right brackets were an inverse, and I found swapping them over after the extension and extra arch made the cable alignment much better.

The next issue I had was the end of the moment arm, had to be tweaked to allow the cable to function better on the ball joint to suit the new angle.
This worked satisfactorily, however the amount of travel was now limited due to the arch of the bracket.

I mistakenly pulled the handbrake assembly on one of the calipers apart to determine the best way to achieve what I wanted.
AVOID PULLING THE HANDBRAKE ASSEMBLY APART
Afterwards, I found an easily accessible weld, had to be ground off, and the arm be pulled from the shaft.

I marked the original alignment, so I could see how different it was in the new position.


I ummed and arrrred about drilling and tapping the shaft with the spline, and putting a bolt down instead of re-welding it.
Then I thought fuck it, I don't have an end tap, and if Subaru welded it, I'll weld it.

Reassembling the handbrake assembly on the caliper was a total PITA. Skip this bit, if you want.
Really fiddly, and things were spring loaded, and greased up, and the bottom bush kept coming out as I tapped it in, because I couldn't align it properly because the springs were in the way. And trying to get the little cam lobe in there, while fighting the main spring in the caliper, along with the spring in in the handbrake part to keep it positioned correctly. I swore a lot.

On the second one, I pulled the top boot off the handbrake arm, and carefully removed the weld. I separated the arm from the shaft, and repositioned it on the spline.
It was significantly quicker, however you have to be careful to not overdrive the shaft too far, or else it can slip out of the bush (it tapers down towards the spline)


Now the cable comes out between the shock absorber and bump-stop, in a safe location.
The added arch in the bracket is a bit more noticeable, and by the brackets from L to R, means they swing down, out of the way, instead of up and into the bump-stop bracket.
I have checked clearances, but decided to trim the chassis bump-stop section, for extra clearance.
I have plans to change the rear suspension in the near future, so its currently only a temporary solution.


The main reason why I opted for the Subaru swap, is there wasn't much choice for a handbrake caliper kit, when I purchased this kit.
It sat in a box for 3 years, when there's a little person to care for, there isn't much time for mods (shes almost 3, and makes it a real challenge)

The car was up on axle stands.
Wheel spacer holds the caliper on properly whilst swapping and fiddling around to set it up.
I cleaned the discs at the end, I used a mouse sander with 40 grit paper, it did a great job. Cleaned them up, and roughed them up very well.

REVIEW
The kit isn't exactly bolt up and drive away, there is a fair bit of fucking around to get the handbrake working correctly.
I'm not overly happy with the quality of the kit, if I didn't wait so long before doing it, I probably would have complained.

It seems to require similar pedal effort as the drums.
The handbrake is miles ahead of the old drum handbrake.
However, with two handbrake cables, a brake line, and diff breather, there's now a fair tangle of stuff on top of the diff.
The handbrake cables are also too long, and have to routed a bit to take up the slack.

The front seems a little more responsive under light and medium pedal forces.
If you really step on the pedal hard, is tends to lock the rear up slightly faster than it did before.
Dive may be a factor here, it may change when I re-do the front springs.

I'll give the pads and rotors some time to bed in, and then let you guys know what I think.

Testing
The pads have bedded in.
It feels like the subaru calipers and vit vented rotors need a larger bore in the master cylinder, the pedal travels way too far for my liking.

The handbrake is pretty damn impressive, it has some serious holding power