[atari4x4]

Docka83 wrote:

Hi all,

Just put an M18A VVT in my Jimny following the advice from this thread, thanks !! Can't believe the difference it made to the car especially being an auto, doesn't struggle to pull anymore, has plenty of torque and the auto seems fine. The only thing I've noticed is it now gets through the gears really quickly into top gear in the auto without having to rev her out. Hopefully this should help with upgrading the tires to 235's shortly.

Cheers

welcome to auszookers, you should go buy a sticker from the store on the front page & support the forum AZ

[wlin88]

nice.. I am doing my M18 this weekend, how is fuel consumption comparing to the M13 ?? I am so regret I did not get the bloody auto instead..

[zukenutter]

So has anyone had any long term issues yet with the M conversions, particularly the M18?

[Docka83]

The fuel economy seems ok, maybe slightly more but I am also enjoying driving the car so much more so probably a little throttle happy. The first week of driving it I got 2 and half trips from the goldy to Brisbane on one tank which seemed on par with it previously. Like my m13a though, when using aircon it sucks the juice but i love not having the loss of power from it. It revs at about 3200rpm @110km/h. My auto has 158000 km's on it and seems fine but time will tell how long it lasts, seems promising at the moment but.

[zukenutter]

I'm interested as well to see how drivetrains hold up to the extra power, particularly the VVT manual gearbox.

[tim80z]

Docka83 wrote:

Hi all,

Just put an M18A VVT in my Jimny following the advice from this thread, thanks !! Can't believe the difference it made to the car especially being an auto, doesn't struggle to pull anymore, has plenty of torque and the auto seems fine. The only thing I've noticed is it now gets through the gears really quickly into top gear in the auto without having to rev her out. Hopefully this should help with upgrading the tires to 235's shortly.

Cheers

Awesome work!

Be sure to keep everyone up to date about how the auto goes long term. There is a general consensus on here that the auto box is weak. It would be really good to get some hard evidence about how well the auto can handle it.

- Tim.

[Docka83]

tim80z wrote:

Docka83 wrote:

Hi all,

Just put an M18A VVT in my Jimny following the advice from this thread, thanks !! Can't believe the difference it made to the car especially being an auto, doesn't struggle to pull anymore, has plenty of torque and the auto seems fine. The only thing I've noticed is it now gets through the gears really quickly into top gear in the auto without having to rev her out. Hopefully this should help with upgrading the tires to 235's shortly.

Cheers

Awesome work!

Be sure to keep everyone up to date about how the auto goes long term. There is a general consensus on here that the auto box is weak. It would be really good to get some hard evidence about how well the auto can handle it.

- Tim.

Yeah it will be interesting and difficult to gauge I'm thinking, on road flat to the floor, grabs the gears fine without slip or delay in change. The car was an ex security patrol car so I doubt they treated the auto well for the 130000 kms they had it for. I'll prob put an auto cooler on to help with offroad as I'm also looking at 235's.

I'm not sure if a jimny auto can be beefed up but will look at that If it gives up the ghost and is an option.

Cheers

[squibby]

5uzuki wrote:

So I have a Jimny built in March 2009, I assume it is ADR'd after July 1st 2008. If I want to drive on public roads, does that leave me with only the M15A VVT option? I would much prefer an M18A VVT if I am going to all the trouble of an engine transplant.

Is the ADR issue an insurance problem or only a Mr Plod issue?

Both really,

So you'll need a Euro 4 Donor Engine. It'll have to be M15A VVT - perhaps get one from a swift. All the newer swifts are Euro 4 standard, but some were manufactured prior to July 1st 2008. Remember that your Engineer won't be as familiar with Suzukis as we all are, and you might not be able to convince him that it's Euro 4 if you fit an earlier swift engine (pre july 2008) without taking it for an emmisions test.

Therefore, I recommend you select a donor engine from a Suzuki Swift ADR'd after July 1st 2008, and likely your engineer won't even need you to go and get it tested.

Regards,

si

[wlin88]

Guys FYI, just had my m18 converts ion done by my mechanic over the weekend, what a massive difference. Car respond much more better down low, you don't need to rev as hard to pick p speed also on highway its so easy to maintain 110km/h. I think Suzuki should have use the m18 on the jimny from factory.

But I do have a little problem though. We end up using the liana'injectors. My mechanic pull out both liana and jimny injector and flow them, liana one seen to flow 20-25% more than the jimny. So he end up using the liana one hoping that the factory jimny ecu will pull out some fuel.

Now the car is throwing a check engine code so he plug in the scanner and it turn out to car is running too rich. From the scanner it shows that the ecu has reach its limit of pulling fuel out hence the code. Any suggestion ? Should I use the jimny injector ? Bare in mind it's a brand new o2 sensor in there right now .

Wen

[zooky08]

Yes use the m13a injectors.

[tim80z]

zooky08 wrote:

Yes use the m13a injectors.

I'm using the M18A injectors in mine and I am 99% sure Squibby is also using the M18A injectors.

- Tim.

[wlin88]

So did you get any fault code ?

[tim80z]

wlin88 wrote:

So did you get any fault code ?

I've had no fault codes on mine although it hasn't been in for as long as Squibby's. Mine has only been in since August this year and I've only done about 2750kms over those 3 months.

I'm still running the standard exhaust, not extractors.

- Tim.

[tim80z]

I just posted this in another thread but thought it would be useful to post in here too.

- Tim.

tim80z wrote:

Here's some numerical results between the M13A and M18A. Obtained using a cheap ELM327 OBD reader off ebay and the Torque Android app.

M13A a few days before removal, best of 3 runs:


M18A about a week after installation, best of 3 runs:


I was probably still getting used to the M18A a little and short shifted slightly.

- Tim.

[squibby]

M18 Injectors have been used in all the successful conversions have heard about, and a suzuki specialist in Sydney said the same when I was pricing it up before I decided to fit it myself.

11 months, I've had the engine light twice. The first time I checked the code and it had logged both codes for running lean and running rich. Suzuki cancelled the code and it didn't come back until the second time a few months later. I ignored it the second time and it went away in about 100k's. I'm not worried about it. Besides I got the M13 at the back of the garage in storage anyway, although I don't think I could go back to M13 now.

I also had it dynod after the engine transplant and the pro at the dyno said the fuelling was a bit rich low down, and a bit lean up high, but basically he said it wasn't far enough off to cause any problems, although it needs to run a bit richer at high rpm to get the full potential of the M18.

Passed the Euro 3 emmisions test as well at the RTA's facility near Sydney so can't be bad really.

[zukenutter]

Really getting some good tech together in this thread now. I'm so torn as to whether to swap or not as I'm mostly happy with what I have. I think keeping the 1.3 is a good idea and would probably do the same, have you prepped it for storage or just pushed it into the corner?

[squibby]

pushed into a corner actually. Should wrap it up in film or shrink wrap it like the wreckers do.

[zukenutter]

I'm sure someone will know better than me but I think I read somewhere about a few drops of oil into the cylinders via spark plug holes to stop the pistons seizing. I could be very wrong with that though

[wlin88]

here is some updates.

squibby : Thank you for confirming that u are still using the M18 injectors. I had the ecu reset by disconnecting battery overnight, start up in the morning the fault code went away. drove the car to work all sweet. drove around during a peak hour traffic with air con on the check engine code came back not long after. WDF ? I might gonna take in to my mechanic to see what the fault code is but I am guessing its running to rich again.

would the new O2 sensor effect it ? also any one here running the conversion on M13 injecctos ?

cheers guys

[zukenutter]

Is anyone watching this thread running a M15? I know Steak-Knife did a few of these a couple of years ago and I'm keen to know if they've had any or the same issues as the M18 guys

[datso]

tim80z wrote:

I just posted this in another thread but thought it would be useful to post in here too.

- Tim.

tim80z wrote:

Here's some numerical results between the M13A and M18A. Obtained using a cheap ELM327 OBD reader off ebay and the Torque Android app.

M13A a few days before removal, best of 3 runs:


M18A about a week after installation, best of 3 runs:


I was probably still getting used to the M18A a little and short shifted slightly.

- Tim.

thats not a great improvement in speed but must be better in crawling with the extra torque and pretty much driveability all round. Maybe more worthwhile doing a toyota supercharger conversion? probably 40 to 50% performance increase if the ecu can be modded.

[squibby]

wlin88 wrote:

here is some updates.

squibby : Thank you for confirming that u are still using the M18 injectors. I had the ecu reset by disconnecting battery overnight, start up in the morning the fault code went away. drove the car to work all sweet. drove around during a peak hour traffic with air con on the check engine code came back not long after. WDF ? I might gonna take in to my mechanic to see what the fault code is but I am guessing its running to rich again.

would the new O2 sensor effect it ? also any one here running the conversion on M13 injecctos ?

cheers guys

Difference between your vehicle and Mine:-

YOUR M13 ECU is trying to keep up with a stoichiometric air/fuel map programmed into it for an M13 lump. It knows exactly how much fuel and air is going into your M18 lump (MAF/MAP) and the fact its using the standard M13 injectors it's supposed to be using, and comparing that with the 02 coming out of the exhaust once in the manifold and again in the catalytic convertor. It also receiving many other inputs such as engine speed, throttle position, temperature and probably a load of other stuff I've forgotton.

After adjusting the EGR valve, ignition timing, VVT valve, and CRUCUIALLY the Fueling to the injectors aginst the parameters designed for an M13 engine it's programmed as a minimum to throw up the error code for too rich or too lean. It's obviously going to do this because an M18 is gobbling up more air and fuel then an M13 should, and hence calling on the ECU to deliver more fuel to the injectors then it should be for an M13. (your probably falling of the stoichiometric graph and it could be reverting to 'open loop' mode whereby it'll ignore the 02 sensors and revert to a simpler basic map probably miles too rich, or miles too lean for an M18 - not good)/

MY M13 ECU has a significant difference in that it doesn't know how much fuel is going into the M18 lump because I fitted bigger injectors. The M18 calls for more fuel, but the M13 equally gives a load more fuel without knowing it because the M18 injectors are a larger diameter. The pulse going to them is the same, but more fuel comes out with each pulse. By good providence it would seem that the M13 and M18 injectors combo is luckily happy enough to compensate for the M18 requiring more fuel and M13 ECU doesn't know it. Engine light rarely comes on.

That's my take before you start messing with the sensors, I'd assume that the injectors are your problem.

[JrZook]

datso wrote:

thats not a great improvement in speed but must be better in crawling with the extra torque and pretty much driveability all round. Maybe more worthwhile doing a toyota supercharger conversion? probably 40 to 50% performance increase if the ecu can be modded.

I seriously doubt that the M18 is at its full potential with the M13 intake assembly and ECU. Though a 6+ second reduction from 0-100KPH is pretty darn descent! Roughly a 34% improvement.

[tanshi]

6 seconds improvment is alot, but 18 seconds to 100km/h is farking slow!!!

[zukenutter]

I find the 1/4 and 1/8 mile times and speed interesting and I think shows that the top end is where the M18 starts to pull ground on the 13.
Assuming bigger tyres, I'm very much thinking that a well geared 1.3 against an un-geared 1.8 would be very similar 0-100.

[zukenutter]

Also, does this app use ECU speedo reading or Smart Phone GPS speed? This would shorten the ET

[JrZook]

Just for some perspective. Boostedbrick's tinny with a G16 baleno and 235's (i think) ran a 17sec 1/4 mile with a slipping clutch

[tim80z]

zukenutter wrote:

Also, does this app use ECU speedo reading or Smart Phone GPS speed? This would shorten the ET

I'm pretty sure its GPS speed.

- Tim.

[squibby]

zukenutter wrote:

I find the 1/4 and 1/8 mile times and speed interesting and I think shows that the top end is where the M18 starts to pull ground on the 13.
Assuming bigger tyres, I'm very much thinking that a well geared 1.3 against an un-geared 1.8 would be very similar 0-100.

Yeah I think you're right, the kick comes in for mine hardest in 3rd, 4th, 5th gears. 1st 2nd are still horribly slow, and the gearbox in the jimny doesn't like to be rushed either.

[wlin88]

squibby wrote:

Difference between your vehicle and Mine:-

YOUR M13 ECU is trying to keep up with a stoichiometric air/fuel map programmed into it for an M13 lump. It knows exactly how much fuel and air is going into your M18 lump (MAF/MAP) and the fact its using the standard M13 injectors it's supposed to be using, and comparing that with the 02 coming out of the exhaust once in the manifold and again in the catalytic convertor. It also receiving many other inputs such as engine speed, throttle position, temperature and probably a load of other stuff I've forgotton.

After adjusting the EGR valve, ignition timing, VVT valve, and CRUCUIALLY the Fueling to the injectors aginst the parameters designed for an M13 engine it's programmed as a minimum to throw up the error code for too rich or too lean. It's obviously going to do this because an M18 is gobbling up more air and fuel then an M13 should, and hence calling on the ECU to deliver more fuel to the injectors then it should be for an M13. (your probably falling of the stoichiometric graph and it could be reverting to 'open loop' mode whereby it'll ignore the 02 sensors and revert to a simpler basic map probably miles too rich, or miles too lean for an M18 - not good)/

MY M13 ECU has a significant difference in that it doesn't know how much fuel is going into the M18 lump because I fitted bigger injectors. The M18 calls for more fuel, but the M13 equally gives a load more fuel without knowing it because the M18 injectors are a larger diameter. The pulse going to them is the same, but more fuel comes out with each pulse. By good providence it would seem that the M13 and M18 injectors combo is luckily happy enough to compensate for the M18 requiring more fuel and M13 ECU doesn't know it. Engine light rarely comes on.

That's my take before you start messing with the sensors, I'd assume that the injectors are your problem.

thanks squibby for the input.

now I am not a mechanic niether mechanic minded ! so in short have you done something to your M13 ECU that is different to mine ? mine is an 06 model if that makes any difference ?

my mechanic did the conversion base on your guide on this thread, is there anything you can suggest me to do ?

cheers mate
once again thank you for your time